Convincing My Wife

SEX IN THE BIBLE

Sex is not evil. In fact biblical sex can be a beautiful thing. There is so much misinformation about what the Bible does and does not say about sex that I feel compelled to write this article setting straight what the Bible actually says about this subject. Much of what many believe the Bible says about sex are actually the traditions of men and not Biblical precepts at all.

The primary aim of Biblical laws about sex is threefold. First: to preserve a woman's virginity for her husband. Second: to protect marital rights. And third: to insure reproduction and propagation of mankind. As a rule any act that does not transgress one of those three concerns is not forbidden by the Bible (there are a few exceptions).

In fact the Bible has a whole book about sexuality! The Song of Songs (also called Song of Solomon) is extremely erotic, but it's written in symbolism so a lot of people tend to miss it. For instance, the use of "fruit" refers to the man's genitals, and "garden" to the woman's. God's word on sex is "Eat, O friends, and drink; drink your fill, O lovers." (SoS 5:1)

The Mosaic Law requires that a man not withhold "conjugal rights" from his wife even if he takes other wives (Ex. 21:10). Moreover, the Law exempts a new husband from military service for a full year so he may "bring joy to his wife" (Deut. 24:5). In the Song of Songs Solomon writes of his lover "How fair and how pleasant are you, o love, for delights!" to which his lover responds "I am my beloved's and his desire is toward me." (SoS 7:7, 11) The Hebrew word for "desire" here is T'SHUKAH (Strong's 8669) and comes from the root word SHUK (Strong's 7783) meaning "to overflow; to be wet". This is
the same word in Gen. 3:16 where woman is told that her "desire" would be for her husband.

There is more freedom than restrictions especially for married couples. If Elohim (God) doesn't prohibit something and it's acceptable to both people, then Elohim gives a green light and says, "Enjoy yourselves!"

If you read the Song of Songs, you can see that God encourages us to enjoy His gift of sex in its entire fulfillment.

WHAT ABOUT EXTRAMARITAL SEX?

There is a misconception that the Bible forbids extramarital sex. This is a not true. Nowhere does the Bible forbid two unmarried people from having sex, but the Bible does address the issue of the man that has sex with a virgin female to whom he is not married and says that such a man must pay a dowry to the father and offer to marry the girl (Ex. 22:16-17; Deut. 22:28-29). This is the only place the Bible addresses premarital sex. The Bible does not forbid unmarried
people from engaging in sex.

Married persons have rights over each other's bodies:

The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. (1Cor. 7:4).

Prior to marriage they therefore had rights over their own bodies. However, if the girl is a virgin the man must be willing to marry her. By contrast a married person who commits adultery is, according to biblical law, guilty onto death. There is a huge difference here. A man should not spoil a virgin that he is not willing to marry. But if he is willing to marry her, the Bible does not forbid him from having sex with her. Moreover, the Bible does not forbid an unmarried man from having sex with a woman who is not a virgin because they each hold rights over their own bodies.

THE MARRIAGE BED IS UNDEFILED

Many people seem confused about what they can do or not do in bed with their own spouse. This is unfortunate. They often do not know whom to ask as they are uncomfortable asking religious leaders about such issues. Let me make this clear: Whatever your spouse and yourself do in your own bed is OK. The Bible is clear in saying:

Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)

This means anything that is done in the context of the marriage bed, which is not otherwise forbidden, is permitted.

WHAT ABOUT ORAL SEX?

There are two descriptions of oral sex in the Song of Songs. Keep in mind that in this biblical book, "garden" refers to the woman's genitals, and "fruit" to the man's.

The first passage describes a woman giving oral sex to her male lover:

Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest
So is my beloved among the young men
In his shade I took great delight and sat down
And his fruit was sweet to my taste.
...His left hand is under my head,
and his right hand does embrace me.
(SoS 2:3, 6)

While the second describes a man giving oral sex to his female lover:

Awake, O north wind
And come, wind of the south
Make my garden breathe out fragrance
Let its spices be wafted abroad
May my beloved come into his garden
And eat its choice fruits! (SoS 4:16)

Therefore, Oral Sex is definitely permitted by the Bible.

WHAT ABOUT ANAL SEX?

As we stated earlier the marriage bed is undefiled (Heb. 13:4). This includes anal sex. Nowhere does the Bible forbid a man from having anal sex with a woman. That which is not forbidden, is permitted.

WHAT IS ADULTERY?

As we said earlier married persons hold rights over each other's bodies. The Scripture says:

The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband:
and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body,
but the wife. (1Cor. 7:4).

A person commits adultery if they violate their partner's rights over their body. Extramarital sex is not adultery unless one of the parties is married and acting without permission from their spouse. There are situations where a married person may have sex with another party without having committed adultery. First of all in biblical cases of polygamy the husband did not commit adultery against one wife when engaging in sex with another wife. Second, in the case of a "concubine", and King David had many concubines (Sam. 5:13). King David did not commit adultery when he engaged in sex with his concubines. Finally, there are cases in the Bible by which a person gave their spouse permission to have sex with another person. In these cases the sex act was not adultery.

For example Sarah gave Abraham permission to have sex with Hagar:

And Sarai said unto Abram, behold now,
the Lord hath restrained me from bearing:
I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be
That I may obtain children by her. And
Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. (Gen. 16:2)

But Abraham did not commit adultery in doing so. In another example Rachel gave Jacob permission to have sex with Bilhah:

And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah,n
go in unto her; and she shall bear upon
upon my knees that I may also have children by her. (Gen. 30:3)

Therefore a person can give their spouse permission to have sex with another individual and no adultery is committed. This is because their spouse has power/authority over their body (1Cor. 7:4), including the power to allow them to go unto another (as in Gen. 16:2; 30:3). A man can give his wife permission to have sex with another man or a woman can give her husband permission to have sex with another woman, as long as this permission is given its not adultery. If both partners are wishing to engage in this sort of situation they may do so and have not committed adultery.

"Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her." (Lev. 18:20)

A more literal translation is: "Moreover you shall not lie giving seed with your neighbor’s wife, to be made unclean by her."

Now this verse should already have alarms going off over this statement. One does not simply become unclean from committing adultery. Adultery in the Mosaic Law is punishable by DEATH. The man in this passage becomes "unclean" because this is a follow up to the previous verse which forbids one from having sex with their wife "as long as she is set apart for her uncleanness" (Lev. 18:19) that is, during her menstruation period. This follow up verse in Lev, 18:20
is saying that one would also become unclean from having sex with one's neighbor’s wife so as to make it clear that one should not have sex with your wife, or anyone else’s wife that is menstruating. But wait... why would anyone be having sex with his neighbor’s wife? Wouldn't that be adultery? Why have a passage in the Bible warning a man that he would become ritually unclean from having sex with his neighbor’s wife (in her uncleanness)? Wouldn't he be guilty onto death anyway, not just unclean? This passage makes it clear that there are situations in which a man can have sex with "his neighbor’s wife" without having committed adultery. This is because your neighbor can give his wife permission to have sex with you. In the same way you can give your wife (or husband) permission to have sex with your "neighbor".

In the Song of Songs, Solomon's lover describes herself as "the lilly" (SoS 2:1) but later describes Solomon as being away from her because he has "gone down into his garden... to gather lilies" (SoS 6:1-2) these are clearly his other "wives, concubines" (SoS 6:8). The language of SoS 6:1-2 makes it clear that Solomon's lover was not upset that he was having sex with other women, presumably he had her permission. There is no doubt that Solomon and his lover, loved each other and were totally committed to each other. In fact, they were almost certainly soul mates. Yet Solomon's lover was totally OK with Solomon having sex with other women. She trusted him so much that she still felt totally secure in her relationship with Solomon saying "I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine: he feeds among the lilies" (SoS 6:3). It mean that allowing one’s spouse to have sex with another is no sign of a lack of love. It also means that accepting such permission and having sex with another does not indicate a lack of love. Finally, it means that both parties can engage in such activity if they so choose and remain absolutely committed to each other.

Modern word adultery is clearly sex outside your marriage. In the original Greek it means unfaithfulness, which clearly a wife is not being unfaithful if she has her husband’s blessing. Others feel it means to be dishonest, which if you are cheating would be dishonest but OK if husband approved. Note how the translation has changed over the years.

WHAT ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY?

The Bible is VERY clear that a man may not have sex with another man. The Bible states clearly:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with woman kind: it is an abomination. (Lev. 18:22)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination. (Lev. 20:13)

It is also important to realize that God says exactly what he means. God is specific here in referring to "MANkind" not because He is careless, but because this is what He means. In fact, the very next verse (Lev. 18:23) forbids a man from having sex with an animal and then adds that it is also forbidden for a woman to have sex with an animal. Since (Lev. 18:23) specifies that it applies to both men and women.

But, it is clear that women are not mentioned in (Lev, 18:22) because a woman is NOT forbidden to lie with another woman as she would lie with a man. That which is not forbidden is permitted. A woman is in fact permitted to lie with another woman as she would with a man. The Bible does however forbid a woman from engaging in sex with other women to the exclusion of having sex with a man.

This is addressed by Paul who writes:

…even their women did exchange the natural use
into that which is against nature. And likewise
also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust one toward another…
(Rom. 1:25b-27a)

Here the issue is not violation of the commandment against males having sex with males (as in Lev. 18:22; 20:13) but against the commandment to engage in natural sex "being fruitful and multiplying". This passage in Romans has to do with women who forsake having sex with a man in order to engage exclusively in sex with other women. A woman who does not forsake sex with a husband does not violate the principle that Paul lays down here.

WHAT ABOUT GROUP SEX?

The Bible actually tells us that group sex is acceptable. In (Lev. 18:18) the Bible reads:

Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister,
to vex her, to uncover her nakedness beside the other
in her life time.

The wording of this verse implies that a man should not have sex with two sisters in their life time. But the wording of the passage implies that two women that he was having sex with might be right beside each other, and THAT is not what the Bible says is wrong here. After all if it is always wrong for a man to bring his wife to another woman to have sex with that other woman next to his wife, then why have this statement? Wouldn't it always be wrong even if it was not her sister? From this passage we can conclude that it was apparently not always wrong, it was only wrong if the women were
sisters. I want to clarify that while some translations of the Bible have taken out the word "beside" the word is definitely there in the original Hebrew. And the original Hebrew specifies that the man has brought the wife to the sister so that one is beside the other. By implication it does not seem to be a violation for a man to bring one woman to another woman and uncover their nakedness right beside each other as long as they are not sisters. Since a person may give their spouse permission to lie with another, they may also be present while this takes place right beside them. If he has permission from his wife a man may have sex with another woman while his wife is watching. At the same time a woman may have sex with another man right in front of her husband so long as her husband has granted her permission to do so.

If both parties wish to engage in this activity the Bible is OK with it.

CONCLUSIONS

The sexual morality laid out in the Bible is not the sexual morality that you have been taught is in the Bible. The Bible does not forbid premarital sex, oral sex or anal sex. The Bible does forbid homosexual sex between males but does not forbid women from engaging in sex with each other provided they do not forsake sexual relations with a man. The Bible does forbid adultery. Adultery only occurs when a married people have sexual relations with a person other than their spouse without having been given permission to do so by their spouse. If permission is given by the spouse, a married man may engage in sex with another women and a married woman may engage in sex with another man or another woman, provided they do not forsake sexual relations with her man. If such permission is given, sexual encounters may take the form of group sex (so long as the men do not engage in sex with each other directly) and the spouses can watch the activity.

 

Ummm... Using a dictionary to evaluate God's position on a matter? Seriously, dude?

 

I sped through that and didn't see anything that conflicts with my own interpretation which I solidified over decades. That's why I always tell people, read your Bible rather than listen to what someone else tells you the Bible says. Very important!

 

The more I read about this whole saga, in a number of different threads, the more I'm convinced this is all fake.

 

Ummm... Using your imaginary, invisible buddy to evaluate states legal positions on a matter? Seriously, dude?

(This is the one and only potshot that I'm taking on religion in this thread. Until God shows up at my front door and PROVES that he is God, I won't believe in him. Prove how, you might ask? If he's really God, he'll figure out a way.)

 

Sorry but my opinion here is that while it’s quite fine for people to mix and have fun together On their own accord without manipulation, the saying of someone else getting the wife pregnant is total nonsense, what started as some thing fun and interesting to read turned into a sad story

 

Is Robert B and Becky trying to conceive and not able to? What if said preacher knocks her up, and then he decides he wants parental rights? That could get ugly! How would Robert feel about raising a child for 18 years that wasn't biologically his?

We've had MFMs several times with the same close friend. Wife was on the pill so no pesky fucking condoms. Before our last MFM wife went off the pill as we wanted to have a baby. We weren't having much luck for several months, when by chance we were able to be with our friend again. It was still bare and he came in her.....TWICE! Conflicting emotions for me. It was hot knowing that he might get her pregnant........and then terrified that he might get her pregnant. We both came in her so whose baby would it be? Would we get a paternity test? We thought about it while waiting for her to have her period. Stressed somewhat as she was a couple of days late, but she wasn't pregnant. That was the last time she had sex with someone that wasn't me.

We're at that stage in life that she can't get pregnant, but I do wish we'd pick up on MFMs again.

 

Ben came over Friday night, after our daughter went to bed we went into the bedroom. Becky had nothing on under her robe, Ben took it off and kissed her for a while, touched her in the right places.
Then he undressed, Becky was amazed seeing his penis!
I helped her get on her back. She was real wet, and Ben mounted Becky and slowly entered her. She was crying a little, real emotional. So was I.
Then he shuddered, and got real deep in her and came.He told Becky he loved her. He was so proud!
Becky was still emotional. She had semen oozing out of her that wasn't mine. I was emotional too.The contest of his light brown skin on her fair skin and freckles was so beautiful.
They had intercourse again twice that night. Ben was real gentle, and kept telling Becky he loved her. Yesterday, she rested and had a hot bath. She had trouble cleaning Ben out of her. I love her so much, no matter what.

 

Maybe you weren't following the thread from the beginning, but the discussion was about God's laws, not man's laws.

The "proof" either way on the existence of God will not appear until the afterlife. It's your dice.

 

Nice. But why did she want to "clean Ben out of her"?

 

She still had semen in her that was dried and congealed. She doesn't regret what they did.

 

I'm sorry but I have been following this thread and trying to wrap my head around it but it is all kinds of fucked up. As somebody pointed out already I believe, this may not be consensual. I am no psychologist but a woman who willingly had sex with another man does not discuss washing his cum out. They fuck, they shower, end of discussion. Anybody feels like this needs to be reported? I am far from judgemental or disapproving. Go ahead and read my profile posts to see how into free love I am. But this thread concerns me.

 

Since the OP (and his wife and friend) is passed the "fucking and cumming inside" step, it's pretty much irrelevant at this point. However, in the OP's original post, he said (and I quote in part) "She's afraid it would be commiting adultery,". Now, by both the strict and legal definition, what they are doing (well, did now) is "adultery". That's true even according to the bible. According to openbible.info, there are 110 direct (or indirect) references to adultery in the bible, and NONE of them condone it.

All I'm saying is that if they want to enjoy this threesome, go for it! Plenty of us already have. However, since the OP has stated explicitly that he and his wife are both Christians, then they're choosing to hand wave away "God's word" as presented in the bible, because it's being done "for love". There are plenty of wonderful acts of sex in the bible, but the bible provides no exceptions from the 7th commandment.

 

Finally some sense. I didn't want to dignify this thread with my reply but buzzgunner is on the money. The word fornication is not common these days but means to have intercourse with someone one is not married to. Fornicators are listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9 among many groups of people who will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Any sex that is not between a husband or wife is fornication specifically adultery if one or both of them is married to someone else.

 

Guys, you two, buzz and naked, please carefully review bob 44044's post above and explain how that interpretation went awry.

The passage naked referenced, 1 Corinthians 6:9, is a warning but does not define any of the sins listed.

 

I'm not sure where to even begin to argue as bob's provided many scriptures to justify his view. It feels like he's interpreted passages the way he sees fit so as to reach the conclusion he wants. There's another dimension to studying scriptures that's missing - asking the living God to enlighten you as to the intended meaning and context of his Word and in my opinion that ain't it.

 

NakedInfluence, Isn't that what you do, interpret the way you see fit so as to reach the conclusion you want. I'd like to see you come up with anything different.

 

Hes already come in her.

 

Just to much to read..............lol

 

Five minutes. Too much time to spend learning?