Consciousness, reality, and states

I guess the reason I feel this, just to end my input- is this brain capacity VS amount of the brain we use argument. It's a misconception that we only use ten percent- the amount of people I have had to tell otherwise, and that we probably aren't secret telepaths, is bewildering.

We use all of our brain, just not at a high volume. It's like having your electric fire not turned up very high. I don't feel dreaming can look into the future, I don't believe your conscious has any silly secret messages. Our brains purpose is to make sense of something, not blur your interpretation.

Since we use all our brains, we would likely understand maybe to the most minimal of degrees, something of our dreams had they any meaning or purpose.

 

I agree

For the rest, I don't agree, but I understand your point.

The fun part is that we'll never know either way. Which is why I like theories so much and discussing them. Could you possibly imagine how insanely boring and tedious life would be if there was no unknown, everything was proven, no theories, no ideas, no question left unanswered. I'd hate to live in that world.

 

well said :cheers2:

everything believes in different things, I guess. I wish I wasn't so cynical, I have friends tell me all the time that I should try to imagine possibilities without stone cold facts (or words to that effect). It's all interesting to talk about though, so I hope you don't mind my butting in

 

I'm not sure where you got the, "look into the future" idea from. I may have missed something.

Have you ever taken an entheogen and had a meaningful experience? Don't bothering answering it, I'm just asking rhetorically. Things we can experience using certain drugs tell us things about life, this reality, etc. They can be extremely meaningful experiences. They can be confusing, not straightforward at all, cryptic, be comprised almost entirely of symbolism. Why doesn't our brain just tell us the message outright? The brain doesn't always make sense of everything. The brain creates things, often it can do things that we're not consciously aware of, or things we can't explain given our current conscious knowledge and we are responsible for using the logic and reason aspects of our brains to make sense of it.

 

Absolutely not. That's why Lillally and I decided to make the thread. Any opinion on the matter is welcome.

Cynicism can get a little irritating, so can pie in the sky dreaming all the time. But the thing is, it's cynicism that makes people refine things, whether it be art, music, movies, theories, stories, food, ideas, etc.

If there were no cynics people would never go out of their way to expand on something.

Also though, you won't be stepping on any toes because "stone cold facts" don't apply to things of a psychological and metaphysical nature.

 

the future thing was something mentioned by Lil, maybe on the last page. Prophetic dreaming.

and as for drugs, they change the way the body works- so how can that fairly donate anything related to the function of typical human brain?

When people get drunk, their motor skills become shot and they walk stupidly. That's not an example of the brain furthering it's reach of consciousness- it's your brain becoming quite simply confused.

 

I think finding a mean to everything in life creates the most harmonious of situations. With familiarity comes contempt, and all that.

God, i'm trying though right?

 

Alcohol is in no real way comparable to the experiences of some entheogens. Alcohol retards the brain, and has other sometimes desirable effects. Most entheogens expand consciousness, awareness, and provide visions that are extremely relevant to the personal life of the user, as well as the collective experience.

I know that you're a man of logic and facts and all that. You should read up a little bit on the use of LSD in psychotherapy, back in the late 50s, and they're using it again today. You might like it and a lot of it isn't "far out" theories and visions and all that either. But it does cover its meaningful, sometimes profound effects in a more scientific, convincing way. LSD psychotherapy was acutally first introduced to Canada in the mid to late 50s as a way to treat alcoholism, and many were "cured".

You get an A- for your effort at stomping on the dreams of Jungians everywhere

 

I will give it all a read tomorrow, see if there is anything surprising. I will admit this much, I am little aware of LSD and it's effects. I never really took the stuff. Because of that, I maybe be out of my depth talking about it.

Alcohol was the example I used just because of peoples ability to relate- I always figured drugs are had the same effect, be it alcohol or LSD, where it will create chemical changes to the brain.

Anyways, i'm off to watch the Grinch with my mum. I'll have a ponder at something tomorrow afternoon and hopefully learn something new.

:seeya:

 

LSD doesn't have any negative physiological effects on the brain or body whatsoever.

Some have actually said it may have positive effects.


Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

 

That is the egos perception, the body is it's proof. Without a belief in the body as unique and separate the ego has no home.

 

In my opinion, that statement is not correct. It can have.

 

yes, i'm in the same boat as you on that one. Much like dreaming, and never to wake a person when they are sleepwalking let's say- these sorts of thoughts and feelings should not be blurred between the conscious and unconscious mindset. I know plenty of LSD users will regress, but it is a dangerous drug- not in the way it can psychically harm like others, but unless you are mentally prepared the trip it will send you on could risk an individual of doing something drastic through fear.

I was with a guy once who tried to climb out of my friends window when taking it. This was a flat two floors up.

 

you've never met or read about anyone having a negative effect from lsd?

 

yes yes... i think it is the pre-existant forms i saw and interacted with when a child and young adult... my mother saw the same being (only a smaller version) when she was about 5 years old... i have since seen this being or ones very similar indeed, in paintings, in sculptures, and heard descriptions of them in ancient mythology... i have a pic of him in my album on here... i say it is him and it does look very like him, but there are subtle differences...

to use a metaphor, i'm talking of these different realities like layers of the one onion... different layers, different realities, same whole thing...

yes, i agree...

i agree again, and would like to add that this stage of altered perception can also be reached through extreme stressed states...

so, you don't think that they just see it (the lay of the land) because a part of themselves was able to actually fly around?

i don't disbelieve you here IB, but would very much like to read about this... that we use all of our brain... any programme i have watched or book i have read, contradicts that statement... please provide links or refs if poss?

yes... i was dreaming about the Tsunami in Indonesia on Xmas night.... how did my brain do that?

i don't think that LSD is the culprit here... in my limited experience, it has always had a profound effect on people who have some hidden guilt complex... like, they are in denial about something.... the LSD seems to bring it out into their light of day... but i could be wrong...

 

Did you both see this figure physically or in your mind's eye?

A part of their mind was. I believe that the mind can and does travel, such as through meditation. The person's physical body though stays back wherever they are.

Same here, I've always read that we use less than half of it. Not one physical half but percentage wise.

I don't doubt that really. I don't think that they're necessarily "predictions" but I think the mind suggests things that happen to come true.

This was one of many times something I thought of or "foresaw" came true, however this was more serious than the other things. One night a few years ago I was sleeping and I had a dream that my uncle's mother (who I knew well) had died, it was a very vivd dream. I woke up the next morning and was sad for the first few minutes because I thought it was real. I walked downstairs to call my mother back in the city to come and pick me up and when she got to my apartment she told me that my uncle's mother had died last night. Six months earlier she had been diagnosed with cancer and she didn't tell anyone until the week before because they were going away to the US and she didn't want to worry them. She died while they were away.

I agree. LSD is not what injures the people technically, some can have accidents while tripping. LSD doesn't have any negative physical effects on the brain, body, or organs, that's a fact.

As for psychological effects- LSD has brought out psychological diseases in people who already had them. It would have come out one way or another, it's a "matter of time" thing in those cases. Other people have experienced temporary psychosis, this goes away usually in a matter of hours if not days, occasionally weeks.

It will cause some anxiety and fear in those who have repressed issues (everyone) as it tries to bring these to the surface so that we can deal with them. Naturally one will experience fear, sadness, sometimes pain, etc. when facing issues they thought they had forgotten and don't want to deal with.

Once these issues are dealt with though, the trip can become one of incredible beauty and meaning.

LSD doesn't cause "normal" people to go psychotic, it can cause people who already had bad psychological issues to go psychotic. On the other hand it has shown to be successful in treating some schizophrenics, alcoholics, people with anxiety disorders, people who have a terminal illness, etc. It doesn't affect the body negatively in any way. It's how people interpret the trip and what they choose to do that can potentially hurt them.

 

LSD is a substance that in my opinion is one of the best for opening inner but with that at times comes the "Pandora's box". It was by far one of my favourites to use. I think I took a lot away personally from my use of it but I also was in a level place going in. Psychosis is not uncommon, usually only a short term issue for most but not all. Anyone with a tendency toward emotional disorders or some conditions such as even border line schizophrenia should avoid using this to "open" with.

I agree that it will take someone where they do not want to go if they are not in the right place to start with. Just the nature of the lady. It can be the most beautiful exploration of self but it can also be the most harsh mirror that you will ever have.

Given the nature of the thread and that we are not referencing using as recreational but rather trying to reach a place in ourselves, it should be a consideration as in total mental state going into it.

For some once they open that channel using LSD as an aid they are not able to cope and that is a concern. Perhaps that ties in the most with the thoughts also on this thread. Why are some able to envision or "feel" and others not. Why do some cope better with abstract.

I do not discount the merits of LSD and I think it was discontinued as a tool before it should of been because of the culture that decided it was a good time rather than a medical advancement.

 

we played together often when i was a child... he was the one i flew with too... he is in one of my albums on here...(well a near as dammit representation of him is)... i was absolutely gobsmacked when i came across this sculpture in Prague, pictured in my album...

for my mother, he was smaller but looked extremely similar... we were both at the British Museum recently, and saw a being who the Ancient Egyptians used to worship, called Bes... Bes also reminds me of him... he also reminded my mother of her "friend" who used to appear to her.... he used to dance on her dressing table when she was a child... the way he acted with us both sounds like very much like some of the beings described by people who have smoked DMT... sort of mischievous and fun... my mother also saw this being in the same place where he and i used to sit near the ceiling on the drier thing in the kitchen in the house i was born in, many moons ago... he seemed very angry with me when i told him to go away when i was about 15 years old... he was freaking me out.... coming into my dreams and inviting me to eat my own flesh... i am still not sure if i did the right thing, asking him to go... i think i should have overcome my fear of him... NB. i never used to fear him when i was a VERY young child... it was only as i got older and realised that he looked like what people called demons that i became afraid of him...

 

i agree with this wholeheartedly... LSD may not be the right tool for everyone... having said that, i still don't blame LSD... it is the person, not the drug... rather like i am intolerant to soft egg yolk, so i stay away from it, but i understand that not all people have that same intolerance and enjoy it as much as i'd like to...

 

That's really interesting. Do you or your mother have any theories about who or what he is/was?

I've heard of people seeing things that were likely manifestations of something bothering them psychologically, as you said, stress and whatnot. Though you said you saw him when you were a child and didn't fear him, it's likely that this wasn't because of something that bothered you.