Conformity Factor?

i just think that one of the main faults people have with drug induced thoughts is practicality. no matter how amazing a thought is, you have to consider its practical application. conformity is not the problem. its awareness of one's own conformity. we could live fine if people were simply aware of their conformity and didnt view their own conformity as normal, and whats normal for everyone else as conformity. we are humans, not ehterial beings. our consciousness makes us think we are beyond what we are. humans use structure as a means of efficiency, relatedness, security. its just when we dont relaise that we are conforming that we treat our conformation as if its -right- (when what is 'right' is merely just our human way of emotionally identifying our conformity), and that automatically sets up other people's conformities as -wrong-.

its religion that causes problems in the world because people think their religion is more valid than anotehr person's religion. religion is not just spirituality but social religion - commercial, industrial, adolescent, hedonistic & other sorts [of conformity]

 

Bill, get over practicalities. You clinging to such worldly ideas will only get in the way of your progress as a being. I recall another LSD discussion in which you claimed that unless a person can describe a feeling or experience with words, it is basically invalid. Language is not the means and end of intelligence. I'm just seeing more and more that it's obvious you don't have much LSD experience. Not a bad thing to be inexperienced, some people don't even need to take L to realize certain spiritual concepts. I'm not talking about your ideas on conformity which I agree with, I'm talking about your emphasis on the practical, the illusory 'real,' etc it all signifies that you inhabit your ego and can't break out.

 

What exactly do you mean by spiritual concepts, and i think stoner bill was saying since you can't really express an emotion through language, at least that well, then its invalid to other people unless they experience them for their self. I agree with stoner bill if i understood correctly. The majority of people, in the u.s at least, are Christian, and use religion to base certain conformities. Like no cloning of humans (but animals seem to be OK, which i think makes no sense), no stem cells, and many things that they don't wan't because they think just because it has a number on it that it is the mark of satan! And they'll be curst forever, or some shit. I think if we were allowed are on conformities, regardless of religion, then the world would be much more productive. But i think when it comes to a certain extent religion is completely illogical to automatically believe in a god even though you've never seen him for yourselve, and only go by trust between you and other people despite the fact that they could be lying. I mean how is that logical?

 

I thought Bill had no L experience?

 

My bad i miss understood. I agree completely that we have more thoughts in our heads then words can explain. This is probably because you brain is having to use more energy, and concentration when speaking verbally then when not because it requires more energy to keep thoughts in your head and express them at the same time. You have to focus on both accessing words to use at the same time you think of the coresponding concept to match the words, am i right?

 

Also trip seeker if you were'nt able to access the words that correspond to thoughts, then those thoughts would be invalid to others, but not nessasarily you.

 

if youre spiritual then go for building your inner self, i care about my place in the world, my real identity as a person in a world and not in a mind. the impracticality here is that if there was no 'conformity' amongst people does that mean that everyone is doing somethig different? the world wouldnt function. we dont live in small communities, we live in a largely populated world. if everyone was to throw out conformations then we would break down. conformity is natural and probably healthy. what the conformity is, is the practical issue in this topic. i dont see why lsd even has anythign to do with this except that it stirred people into wondering about conformity. but ive not heard one person here go through with these ideas to the practical level without fault. there is not validility in a concept if it cant be practically applied, besides enjoyment in thinking the concept. i dont find that interesting and if that is my ego making me think that then maybe egos arent such a bad thing for the world

 

nonconformity doesn't mean every single person on the world is so weird they can't relate to eachother. people would still be the same as other people, they'd just come to their own conclusions. someone might reply saying "if they're still the same as other people, they're still conforming" but there would be a big difference between a society where everyone was given information to choose who they are and a society where everyone was told who they were since birth.

conforming doesn't mean lack of cooperation. only when a nonconformist is trying to live freely and a conformist has never been exposed to such openness, and see it as wrong. i'm not talking about the stereotypical hippie vs. christian. anyone who has questioned why they do things they way they do, compared with someone who just does them.

what if tv, the radio, and magazines asked questions instead of giving orders?





on another note, we use different areas of our brain for different things. if one is defficient, other areas can somewhat take over, but normally they each perform their own tasks. one section (is it the cerebral cortex or the frontal lobe, or both? someone who knows more should explain) controls speech and communication, assigns meaning to the words we use, and makes connections between the words we hear and past thoughts. maybe if we do brain exercises (there are tons of them on the internet, and books you can buy, that target certain areas like memory or almost anything you can think of, plus there's meditation) and focus on this area, we could find better ways to communicate things. it's entirely possible (in fact, it's the only way) to train and advance our brains through the things we do in the outside world, because the brain sort of "looks at" what we do repetatively and becomes good at those things, while lessening it's abilities in things we never or rarely do. i'm sure we have words to describe everything we experience, we just have to discover them.

 

do psychedelic experiences have anything to do with the temporal lobe, or is that more for mental illnesses like schizophrenia?

 

You will never find your identity if you look for it in the illusion around you.


I'm not talking about conformity or anything, I was addressing bill's general mode of thought as I perceive it. But hey, whatever works for you.

 

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on another note, we use different areas of our brain for different things. if one is defficient, other areas can somewhat take over, but normally they each perform their own tasks. one section (is it the cerebral cortex or the frontal lobe, or both? someone who knows more should explain) controls speech and communication, assigns meaning to the words we use, and makes connections between the words we hear and past thoughts. maybe if we do brain exercises (there are tons of them on the internet, and books you can buy, that target certain areas like memory or almost anything you can think of, plus there's meditation) and focus on this area, we could find better ways to communicate things. it's entirely possible (in fact, it's the only way) to train and advance our brains through the things we do in the outside world, because the brain sort of "looks at" what we do repetatively and becomes good at those things, while lessening it's abilities in things we never or rarely do. i'm sure we have words to describe everything we experience, we just have to discover them.[/QUOTE]The frontal lobes are in the cerebral cortex first of all, and most of are language is usually stored in the left hemisphere of our brains, unless you have certain filtering problems between the left and the right brain. Yes i agree that there is probably words that can express all of our thoughts and we just haven't figured them up yet, but think of this, what if our brains never get up to the point of being able to express all of iour thoughts.

There is one inventative idea i have to solve this issue. Its been on my mind for a long time and since we are on the subject i might as well spit it out. It is a type of machine that has all vocabulary known to man stored in it. This would then be wired to our language area in our brains in such a way that the machine thinks up the corresponding word to fit our thoughts. So basically we wouldn't have to learn vocabulary, or even learn how to access it because it all ready does this for us. This would be extremely benefitial to us because i think it takes much time out of our lives in developing these areas in the brain. If we didn't even have to put thought into using vocabulary, then our brains could have much much more time to think of other things. One problem is we would have extreme difficulty in figuring out a way to translate the thought signal sent to this machine is a way that is could access the right words. Though i think we are a long way away from having the technology to do this anytime soon. I think it's still an interesting concept to think about.

 

I believe Psychodelics effect all areas of the nervous system, temporal lobe included, but whats your interest?

 

i'm just interested, how can you NOT be interested in brains? specifically, if the thoughts we had during a psychedelic experience were happening because of changes in the temporal lobe, i thought that might have some effect on my theory of exercising our frontal lobe, but when we do thinking exercises we're of course not being THAT specific, and it couldn't hurt to try. anything we do to improve our brain helps us with our abilities with thinking overall. so, anything i've ever read has said something along the lines of "scientists aren't sure exactly how psychedelic drugs effect the brain" but i'd like to know what they DO know, aside from blocking receptors with drugs like cocaine that make us think we're happier than we are.

i know the frontal lobes are in the cerebral cortex. sorry, but i wanted to throw that in there...

our brains never will get to the point of expressing ALL our thoughts, but we can make improvements which will help us connect to eachother better and lead to MORE improvements.