Come together on what we can all agree on

Also known as "trickle-down economics". Conservatives preach that it's the key to economic prosperity. Liberals point to research showing that it doesn't exist.

The elder Bush was also the first President to push hard for free trade with China, which has nearly destroyed our manufacturing economy. I don't believe it was a coincidence that he was a former ambassador to China. Through this one action, George H. Bush brought more long-term harm to this country than Reagan did in eight years.

Unfortunately, it has been impossible to vote against our China trade policy in a general election, since it has consistently been supported by both parties in subsequent years.

The transfer of most of our manufacturing jobs to a country that cares nothing about its workers or the environment has been a disaster on so many different levels. The resulting reduction of tax revenue has had a major impact on the US national debt. It isn't just corporate taxes, but individuals paying less tax on smaller incomes.

We're trying to live like we're still the ultimate manufacturing dynasty, but the party is over.

But...this is the wrong time to cut government spending. The unemployment rate needs to be brought below 7% first. That's standard thinking in non-voodoo economics. Once the economic recovery gets stronger, federal spending needs to be reduced gradually, so as not to trigger another recession. Good economic times are when you should run a surplus every year and pay down your debt. It's going to be tough to do, with so much money flowing to China, but it can be done if we get medical cost inflation under control.

 

^ Excellent post Karen!

I agree with this too.

 

Here's one undeniable truth about the United States (and perhaps all other governments): They are under the complete control of the financially powerful/elite. Yes, there is a pyramid of power, but near the top, the angle drops off suddenly to a sheer face, like an obelisk. Most of us struggle and exist on the precarious, sheer face of this structure - but without "us", the pyramid would come crashing down and fall to peices. We have yet to try a different configuration, and I doubt we will anytime soon - because the transition to a better system would likely be more painful than we are willing to bear. It would require an entire generation of people willing to sacrifice what little they already have for the sake of their children, and I see no evidence here or anywhere else of even a modest number of people who would be willing. We'd rather exploit and feed on each other for as long as possible, die-off, and leave the wasteland we've created to our children.

Those with the most money, land and resources have the power to make and break the "rules" that powerless and truly disenfranchised (via wealth/power mis-distribution) are subject to. A person's power to determine his/her own level of representation in any government and the level of legal/rights and representation is directly related to his/her wealth/power. You can legally murder people in this country if you have enough wealth and therefore influence to protect you from prosecution. I would argue that this has been true since the birth of human civilization, and sadly - I don't think it's ever going to change, and for no other reason than human beings are pathologically selfish and short-sighted in nature, and have yet to evolve from the most primitive versions of ourselves.

 

Has 'Money equals free speech' been covered yet? I think most of us could agree that's horse shit.

 

I'd like to hear the arguments against it but I'm sure that will take us off-topic.

 

I've thought about that too and have sometimes wondered if it is nurture rather than nature. The culture we experience tends to reward selfish behavior.

People around here quote this kind of stuff:

If our own happiness is the moral purpose of life, of course human beings will be pathologically selfish and short-sighted in nature.

 

rjhangover,

Well, I have to give you credit for trying, but it looks like many still find the blame game much easier to play than make an effort to come together in a way that would result in uniting us in any ways that might bring about desirable changes.

 

Is it not obvious?

I feel as if this is some sort of trick because I'm fairly certain you know and agree that it's a bad idea.

 

I'm not sure we're both talking about the same thing so if you want to elaborate, I'm listening. Also, I'm quite certian it will lead off-topic so you might want to start a new thread. I'd like to participate.

 

I agree with this.

 

out,

There is no clearly defined topic in this thread which, in my opinion, only attempts to direct conversation towards an issue or issues in which we all can agree to be a problem needing a solution, and then work towards achieving a solution which we could all find acceptable.

 

^ that is the impression I'm under.

The Supreme Court decision that money equals free speech, allows wealthy corporations, lobbyists, and individuals to donate large sums of money to political campaigns. It basically allows the wealthy to buy politicians. And statistically speaking, it's the politicians with the most money behind them that win elections.

I propose that we eliminate money from campeigns altogether. No more dirty ad campaigns, no more huge rallies where politicians can fill there followers with lies going unchecked. I think campeigns should be limited to only debates. A weekly debate, where everything said would have to be scrutinized by non biased fact checkers.

The fact that politicians can gain great wealth from just being politicians, leaves the door wide open to corruption. I think that that is dispicable, and if we can find a way to stop this from happening we would find a new breed of politicians coming up, that might just have the brass to represent the people instead of wealth.

 

My understanding is that income earned on the interest of Government bonds is not taxable.

We find ourselves in a situation that rich moneylenders are financing the Goverment and not paying tax on the profit. This is to encourage them to lend even more money out to Washington tis a vicious cycle. Would the interest be taxable, then the Gov. would have to pay higher rates of interest to attract lenders.

 

Divide and conquer, and we are doing it to ourselves. Al Qaeda doesn't have to do anything, we're doing it for them. Half the country wants to secede, making the U.S. half as strong. Russia and China are happy to see the U.S. SUPER POWER implode. Does anyone really believe that this country will still be a SUPER POWER when it's divided in half? So many nut jobs in this country are itching to start a civil war. Here's a clue, THAT'S JUST WHAT AL QAEDA, IRAN, AND NORTH KOREA WANT TO SEE.

All this fighting over guns, the debt ceiling, health care, taxes, government spending, Social Security, and morality, is only making us weaker as a nation. If we destroy ourselves, we'll be speaking Chinese before you know it. It's time to bring back, UNITED WE STAND, and give up the SCREW YOU ME FIRST. Because if we don't, we're ALL going to be LAST.

 

The fighting isn't what is making us weaker. The people of this nation are just getting weaker.

 

Anyone watching the dollar vs other world currencies since Obama gained a second term?

 

LetLovinTakeHold:

Now that you've elaborated, I understand and agree with you.

I thought you were for, (not against) 'money equals free speech.' That's why I felt (debating) that in this thread would lead us off-topic.

I agree with you, –money does not equal free speech. It's supreme Supreme Court horseshit.

I agree.

 

Really is there really a problem with our Government. Really. I don't see a problem.



All I know is My husband works his ass off so he can provide for his family. We cant afford to feed our family a healthy diet but we have insurance. And that is good because of what, it does not pay medical bills and we still have them garnishing his pay check because the Dr.s and hospitals are so expensive we cant afford them. Thats just an example. I really could go on and on about how well this country takes care of us. No lets not sit our ass on a 20$ toilet seat. Someone may brake their ass cheek. Oh yeah the government for the people. What a joke. Maybe if I had a big enough bank account.

 

The average person does not see a problem, and that is the problem.

 

I see a problem.