Coincidence?

good question bill.

well aren't there really no coincidences? as king george said, it is possible to make coincidences out of nothing because we want them to direct us in a certain direction. what is the differentiating factor between that and an honest to god true coincidence? there is none.

it's entirely subjective. now i don't know much about quantum pshysics, but i found this quote and i find it quite interesting: "quantum physics tells us that the subatomic particles that make up our world are collapsed from waves of probabilities simply by the act of observation."

so what does this mean? well it means that there are an infinant amount of possible coincidences that could occur, but are collapsed into one event from observation. or, if there is no observation, then there is no coincidence.

so, should an observation occur it will bring to light archetypes which are relative to the observer's position. the 'observation' or 'event' doesn't always have to be a coincidence, it could also be in the form of a dream or de ja vu. but if there is no observation, there is no coincidence, no event, and no archetypes.

what makes the difference between the person who makes the observation and the person who does not? the person's place in life. living beings are like radio receivers to the universe. just as a radio receives certain frequencies, as do living beings. so while one person might receive frequencies between 91.1 and 92.1, another might receive frequencies between 91.1 and 97.1. so it's easy to see how someone might have their frequencies tuned out to such observations. they just aren't at that place in existance at the moment when the observation had the potential to be observed.

 

!! lets not get into THAT quantum theory please. biggest load of crap in science. observers cannot 'collapse' a waveform.

but as far as coincidences go, it is more appropriate. at any moment, there are an infinite variety of possible ways of interpreting the world as meaningful, but they collapse into discrete meanings when they are observed by a person

 

yeah i was just using it to help explain what i was trying to say, i don't know anything about quantum physics.

 

There is a lot going on in the universe that surrounds us that we are not unaware of. We are limited to a reality where we cannot perceive all that is and most of us can only see a small fraction of what is. Those who don't live an honest life only see what they want to see in order to protect themselves. Those who live an honest life with lots of love and friendship are able to see more of what goes on around us. The more you are willing to see, the more you will notice synchronicity as it becomes apparent that there is some sort of natural order within the chaos. We have a conscious will and we have karma so there must be synchronicity. If there is no pattern or meaning or if there is no sign or coincidence (as some of you would say) then we have no conscious will and there is no such thing as karma or in other words you can do whatever the fuck you want because it doesn't matter anyways and if that is the way you think than you might want to realize your philosophy falls under a very distinct label - psychopathic.

If you live a good honest life full of love, acceptance and compassion, you will live in harmony with the universe that surrounds you and life will work in your favor. If you live a dishonest life full of hatred, distrust and selfish endeavors, life will be a constant battle as it works against you and tries to tear you down. This happens because there is meaning to it all and although you may not be aware of it there are signs and patterns all around us.

At a certain point in one's psychedelic evolution we should start to notice synchronicity as we learn to follow our instincts. Those who battle with this concept as they try to find some rational explanation, while they search for some sort of evidence, risk falling back into life full of constant distractions and entertainment while they allow themselves to be brainwashed and confused drones. Before one can notice synchronicity one must be open to the idea that such a thing exists. If you're the type of person who needs to see it before you believe it you will probably never see it. Now this is where most people get hung up because they are afraid that if they open themselves up in a way to see such things, what they are seeing is not actual reality as they are hallucinating and going crazy - this is exactly what our current society wants to make sure you continue believe.

I will try to simplify it a bit. In order to use your instincts you must first trust your instincts and if you are too concerned with what everybody else thinks you are not trusting your instincts. If you are too concerned with how things should be because of the way everyone else believes it to be than you are too afraid to see things how they are with your own eyes. Everyone of us is more than capable of making up our own minds but so many of us are too afraid to do so. The capital world would much rather that you trust only in what the majority of society believes. The last thing a lot of these money hungry corporations want is to have a society full of people capable of making up their own mind. I'm not saying that these organizations are making us think this way, all I'm saying is that they are preying on our insecurities.

Learn to trust your instincts as you notice the synchronicity throughout the universe that surrounds you or go ahead convince yourself that there is no such pattern to be observed as you walk in a straight and narrow line while you follow a long line of insecure drones.

 

i wasn't saying that there is no synchronicity. i was just saying that there are no coincidences, only synchronicity.

EDIT: what i meant by our place in life is our place in life related to our karma. so synchronicity is an emergence of archetypes relative to our karma.

 

so.. you need cosmic punishment in order to be motivated to do the right thing?

 

That's just the way it has always been and not just for me but for everyone.

For every action there is a reaction.

Are you saying that you do the right thing even though nothing good ever comes of it?

If when you thought you were doing the right thing something bad happened would you consider that maybe you weren't doing the right thing?

 

Hey man maybe this is just how it works.

 

doubtful. ive experienced karma plenty of times.

 

Wow, if only every particle physicist was as informed about absolute truths as you Bill!

 

3xi, I think you are taking basic causality (If X, then Y) and attributing God-status to that.

There is nothing different between these two scenarios:

1. I shoot a man, he dies.

2. I plant a seed, it grows.

There is no inherent reason why 1 is indicative of some higher order or "universal justice system". Things are as they are.

However now we are starting to enter into the realm of religious debate. This is where there are two kinds of people imo . . . those who require supernatural explanations for everyday phenomena, and those who don't. Isn't it amazing and stupendously unimaginable that I can kill another sentient being, to begin with? That I can give food to a homeless man? That I can plant a seed?

We have the power to do whatever we want, whenever, for whatever reason. There is nothing holding us back. Nothing.

You want to see God or feel Karma? Look in the mirror.

 

causality is questionable...

 

well, this thread is about religious questions and debate, so i say bring it on!

like i said earlier, there are people who are tuned into different frequencies of reality. this is the difference between someone who needs divine explanation for day-to-day events and someone who writes it off as causality.

there is time and space, and then there is causality and synchronicity.

he is talking about more than causality, he is talking about karma. sure we can do whatever we want, but that doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for that. whether it be in this reality or not depends.

so you shoot a man, he dies. then you have to face karma. obviously in this case it is going to be some kind of punishment.

which really brings me to question whether we have free will or not. it might seem like we do, but if you really think about it... it seems doubtful.

you can of course eventually come to the conclusion that karma is an illusion -- as is everything -- but there is still no escaping it in this reality.

 

i find that the judgement from other people as well as the judgement from myself is sufficient moral force to influence my actions. I dont do things because I expect the almighty to see these things and repay them.

I do things so that the things that I do can reward me.

And so that the effects on other people can reward me.

But there is no absolute judgement. I do the right things because I care about integrity. I want the right things to be done and I value integrity thus I strive to do the right thing to save judging myself badly.

and this obviously makes me rather sad about the world because I know there are people out there who dont value integrity and and thus have no reason to do the right thing.

I can still hope that my intelligent peers value integrity, instead of requiring a cosmic or allmighty force.

I know that I can do bad things and get away with them.

And I do.

I also do good things that arent rewarded.

But I still feel guilt and pride respectively, and these are my main punishment/reward.

 

If ONLY!

 

Can you give me an example of an action that has no consequences?

There is none. When I pee next time, whether I shake my penis 2 or 3 times will affect the future of the universe in a very real way. Would you call this "Karma"? My problem with the "karma" concept is it takes the most basic premise of this universe (everything affects everything) and makes it seem special or somehow a conscious process by a divine being . . . I simply like to minimize models, trim the fluff. Occam's Razor and all that.

I do? I can give you many examples of horrible crimes that have gone unpunished, and the people responsible went on to live happy and guilt-free lives. Did Karma miss the memo about those?

But it might not. My action (killing a man) might generate a positive reaction (large insurance claim) for me.

That is quite a significant branching of topic, one that shouldn't be broached lightly. My own opinion is that the debate regarding causality vs freewill is largely one of semantics and poor definition of terms and poor understanding of the empirical data of the physical sciences.

Well I don't think you understand my position; I don't even attribute illusion status to karma. I simply don't see it at all.

 

"I simply don't see it at all" - I would never want credit for these words...

 

i think you misread my post. i was saying there are no actions without consequence.

what's to say that karma has to catch up with someone in this lifetime?

and well your saying that you might get a large insurance claim for killing a man, but the pain and suffering that you caused through killing will still catch up with you, regardless of material reward.

i wasn't necesarily talking to you when i was saying karma is an illusion, because it is an illusion. it is as much as an illusion as reality is, but as such this reality is forever bound by it.

 

dude i have had the same shit happen on my trips too

they all pointed me to one direction and i kept taking more lsd frequently and trying to figure out where it was taking me

then finally i took it too far and everyone turned into aliens and started acting disturbingly different than normal people

then i could feel my brain tingling and i had it in my head that i was about to break out of reality kinda like neo did in the matrix where he just woke up with plugs in his head

i started thinking about the plugs and i started feeling them in me, probably just a placebo effect but i dont know...

i had the worst trip for about 6 hours after that and was out of it for about a week


i have not followed (or taken lsd) those thoughts since, but if it occurs in other people too, there must me somewhere its pointing me too and it almost makes me think i have to go insane to figure it out.

i have also been told that i am god

 

lol

you're not