Clinton Vs. Trump

The bottom line: Primaries are important, and campaign activities before the first primary are important. People who really care about the outcome need to get involved in the process much earlier. If you don't start paying much attention until it's essentially down to two candidates, you have nobody to blame but yourself for your lack of options. Last fall was the time that anything was possible. Now, not so much.

I went to a Sanders rally in November. There was already a volunteer staff there to organize the event, and contributers had given enough money to pay for it. Those supporters won't like it when he loses, but at least they won't be complaining that they never got a chance to do anything but vote for the lesser of two evils. They did a lot more than that.

 

How do you figure? Are those countries that require voting less corrupt than ones that don't?
In Saddam's Iraq for example, it was a jailable offense to not vote. And we all know how well that turned out.

 

Head to Vancouver Very little snow, and dispensaries on every corner!

 

But why is it like this? What's the advantage/original purpose that later in the process it is essentially down to 2 candidates? And you can still vote for another (like Bernie for example) as well? I feel like I'm missing something here: why not vote for a candidate like Bernie (when he represents you and people like you the best), when you can still vote for him after Clinton gets the nomination?

Is it really so that people have nobody to blame but themselves? Can't they blame the system? It seems if one gets the nomination they already won half of the 'battle', namely the one in the party. Why can't people who start paying serious attention like 8 months before the election blame nobody but themselves? Do most americans in this thread agree with that or is that mainly just Karen's opinion?

 

That would just lead to more voter apathy, which is already one of our biggest problems.

I'm just telling you the way it works. This is our reality.

If somebody wants to build a third party that's big enough to accomplish anything in four years, next year is not too early to start. It takes a lot of work to gain tens of millions of supporters. Not just money, but many hours of human effort.

I just hope that all the young disappointed Sanders fans won't be sulking in November, and will get off their asses and go vote for the party. Some of them are too young to remember what it's like to have the full fury of the Republican Party unleashed without anything to slow them down. Bernie remembers, which is why he won't have his name appear on the November ballot as an independent. He's not selfish or egotistical enough to play any role in dividing the liberal vote and putting the GOP back in the White House.

 

I'm a democrat and all the democrats I know who are for Bernie are steadfast against voting for Hillary. I won't vote for Hillary. I'll write in Bernie if anything. If the polls are right, all hail president Trump. Hillary will lose this election.

You're going to be sorely disappointed if you think a lot of Bernie supporters are going to go out and vote for Hillary, who is the most establishment candidate there is.

 

If that's true, then Bernie has destroyed America.

 

Yeps and I asked how it worked, so thanks for explaining. I was just wondering if that was really true about they only having themselves to blame. It seems to me that the fact that it basically evolves around 2 big parties makes it still a lose-lose situation for a lot of progressive democrats (and other progressives), no matter what effort they put into it.

I liked the post but not sure I agree with the conclusion. If enough people would not settle for it things could change (and a third party would not even have to win, just get enough votes to shake stuff up enough to make people aware for next elections).

Nah seems absurd...! An over simplified statement. Blame-game almost

 

I think this is probably true. Seems like a lot of the avid Bernie supporters were excited about him as an individual candidate. His energy and authenticity aren't easily duplicated, especially with politicians. They see Hillary as either totally uninteresting, or as a Republican in Democrat's clothing. Their parent's candidate, not theirs.

 

Almost? No, if we end up with Trump because Sanders supporters decide to pout like spoiled children and hurt themselves to hurt Hillary, I will most definitely blame them.

If somebody is old enough to vote, they are old enough to understand that when you set goals in life, nobody ever gets 100% of what they want. You have to try to get as much as you can, and make the best of it. Throwing a tantrum in the form of choosing zero percent is embarrassing.

People need to go to the web sites of both parties and read their official platforms. Night and day opposites. Reality check: Hillary and Bernie agree on at least 90% of all major political issues. Bernie and Donald agree on one issue.

 

It sounds like you've always been for HIllary (which would be fine, your choice of course). But it is clear you are projecting things on supporters who would still vote for Sanders after Clinton gets nominated. I for one am certain most would not vote for Bernie pouting or with that pitiful sentiment in mind.

 

See my latest post in the Clinton - Sanders thread.

At some point, Bernie will make a speech in which he explains very clearly why the party needs to be unified in November. He will explain that point much better than I can.

I think that time will come sometime in late March or early April.

 

Bernie didn't destroy America. People like the Bushes and the Clintons destroyed America. It isn't a question of the possibility of America being destroyed by Donald Trump. The fact is that America currently is destroyed. It's currently an oligarchy. Clinton will only continue to strengthen the establishment's foothold.

I'm still hoping people will get their heads out of their asses and get out and vote for Bernie. But if not, I can't say I won't enjoy watching Trump tear Clinton apart. And personally I'm not too worried about a Trump presidency. It basically spells anarchy for the populace. We can't seriously be led by Trump, so we'll all have to lead ourselves. Doesn't sound like too bad of news to me. Clinton on the other hand...watch all the corporations consolidate into one, controlling all of the media, all the money, all the power. Watch them dehumanize us until we understand that we're just animals, suckling at our corporate mother's tit.

 

How do you think most of them would spend their vote if not being able to vote for Bernie?

 

Not quite right, according to a 2013 gallup poll

25% rep, 31% dem, so 56% 2-party affiliated. 42% independent

Independents usually lean rep or dem.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

 

Which is also one of the reasons why this thread is still (and hopefully remains) hypothetical.... right?

 

I think a lot of them will vote for Trump, many won't vote at all, and some, like me, will write in Bernie.

I'm not against Hillary because I'm pouting about not getting what I want. I'm against Hillary because she is literally the antichrist.

 

I don't think that is so.

Some people are voting for bernie, and some are voting against HRC. My guess is that for most bernie voters, it's a bit of both.

Fuck the DNC. Those assholes are going to have to start representing me, or stop taking my vote for granted.