Climate Change

Discussion in 'Politics' started by David Vanzant, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Let's just keep extracting resources from the earth and turning them into plastic shit that we're convinced that we need. Good plan ----and no problem---we'll just hop off to one of the other habitable planets when this one gives out. Uh-huh. That's what we'll do. All of us will get to go, of course--not just a chosen few. :cool:
     
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  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Okay let's get into this, even though we're wandering away from climate change i think it's relevant as it points out a misunderstanding of what science is and how it relates to climate deniers.

    The article in question, Effects of Consciousness on the Fall of Dice: A Meta Analysis, is not a report of any experiment on it's own, it is a compilation of other reports.
    It looks at 148 studies done over fifty two years.
    The paper correctly asserts that no consensus has been reached that consciousness has any effect of the throw of dice.
    It also admits that the 148 studies that are offered as proof have "different subjects and experimental protocols." That is, none of the 148 studies replicate each other. They all have different methodologies.

    It then goes on to proclaim that this is irrelevant as they all have the same goal to, "cause a prespecified die face to land face up after being tossed."
    It then goes on to list many, if not all of the different methodologies used.
    It never questions whether the methodologies were valid or repeatable, it only looks at the reported results, which may or may not be valid in themselves.
    Radin claims that by looking at all the published results of positive experimental influence, whether valid or not, when combined, you must conclude that all of those results are valid; whether repeatable or not.

    He claims the "file drawer effect", that is the failure to report negative results, leads to bias an so all the experiments must be valid.
    While the file drawer effect is real, and relevant, he claims that 3,300 unpublished negative results would need to be published to nullify one positive result.
    The rest of the scientific world finds that only 15 to 19 are needed.
    Next he goes on to state that to "homogenize" the differences in experimentation, that is the failure to replicate an experiment, all we need to do is delete the results of "outlier" studies until we end up with positive results...statistically. Not by replication of any experiment, we can just adjust the numbers.

    Nowhere does he investigate whether any of the 148 studies were valid. He never looks at the methodology, subjects, or experimenters.
    Nowhere does he investigate whether any of the 148 studies were intentionally misleading.
    Nowhere does he provide a list, or single example, of a repeatable experiment that uses the same methodology.

    All he does is attempt to wow us with flawed statistics based on unvalidated experiments.

    Smoke and distraction, same as climate deniers.
     
  3. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    Yes climate has changed, but there's reason to think the change is accelerating owing to human causes. When that happens, life changes.You talk as though that's a good thing, but it often means species extinctions and societal upheavals. So we become extinct. So what. Some other species--cockroaches maybe--will take over. Would that be so bad? I think so. I hate cockroaches!
     
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  4. ChinaCatSunflower002

    ChinaCatSunflower002 Members

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    How, exactly? Please keep in mind that Dean Radin is an actual Scientist who has done MANY experiments. He is the Chief Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. How about you?



    http://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/...slit-interference-pattern-Six-experiments.pdf
    https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/9csgu/

    https://osf.io/zsgwp/?

    fbclid=IwAR1YAtj23BKbEeGQ0fV4zS_dYFo78k8ByhMx-wksziUc1czAbNW1k_P23t8


    Am I even a little surprised that you’re going to be a Psi Denier? No, I am not. Somehow you’re relating Dean Radin to Climate Change Deniers? Lolol…your behavior is akin to what Fleischmann called Pathological Criticism. You have taken your position on the matter and no amount of evidence that challenges your overall Scientific Paradigm is going to matter in the slightest. You will just dig your heels in.

    “However, the same scientific mind-set that thrives on high precision and critical thinking is also extremely adept at forming clever rationalizations that get in the way of progress. In extreme cases, these rationalizations have prevented psi research from taking place at all. Ironically, the very same skeptics who have attempted to block psi research through the use of rhetoric and ridicule have also been responsible for perpetuating the many popular myths associated with psychic phenomena. If serious scientists are prevented from investigating claims of psi out of fear for their reputations, then who is left to conduct these investigations? Extreme skeptics? No, because the fact is that most extremists do not conduct research, they specialize in criticism. Extreme believers? No, because they are usually not interested in conducting rigorous scientific studies.”

    “We will see that many of the skeptical arguments commonly levelled at psi experiments have been motivated by non-scientific factors, such as arrogance, advocacy and ideology.”

    Dean Radin | Skeptical About Skeptics | Page 2

    Whatever your particular interpretation of the meta-analysis is is actually irrelevant to me, as I know for myself what the results are capable of with the dice rolls. I did them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2023
  5. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    What do rolls of dice have to do with climate change?
     
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  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Dean Radin resorts to a flawed statistical analysis of unverified experiments to "prove" his point.
    Why not just produce verifiable results?

    I'm not watching a 45 minute video, sorry.
    The Institute of Noetic Sciences is a parapsychology institute.
    I never said i was a psi denier. I am open to all possibilities.
    Anything and everything is possible. But not everything and anything is reasonably probable.
    That's why I ask for verifiable proof. Evidence that is, that can be tested and proved or refuted.
    Is that too much of a burden?
    Climate deniers take certain positions contrary to actual science and then fail to support that position with science.
    Same as Dean Radin.

    I am all for valid research in this area.
    I await your publication of your results and the reaction by the scientific community.
     
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  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I don't know.
    I think he is trying to infer that as science doesn't support the conscious influencing of a die roll, it is bias overall and the bias extends to falsifying evidence about climate change.
     
  8. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    You say. Did anyone else see you or monitor the results? The nice thing about science is that we don't have to rely on one person's word, subjective assessments, or hallucinations.
     
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  9. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. kinulpture

    kinulpture Member

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    Stumbled across a similar study involving psi & gyroscopes.
     
  11. kinulpture

    kinulpture Member

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    One of the ways to allieviate climate change. May be through the assistance of psi powers.
     
  12. kinulpture

    kinulpture Member

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    Sadly though, since many dont take psi seriously. It may not be implemented in time to help us because it would take a group intent. Yall ever heard of the harmonic convergence? For the umpteenth time. Just go out & cloud bust. I doubledog dare ya.
     
  13. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    Politicians simply read the news and think, how can we make some money out of this one.?
    How about fart tax, or possibly tax on breathing.
    They never stop to consider whether it is all their hot air that is causing global warming. :D
     
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  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yeah, we could just pray that everything works out fine.
     
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  15. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Just think REAL hard about something and it may happen. Just like trump did with declassification.
     
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  16. kinulpture

    kinulpture Member

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    Plz note i said psi assisstance.
     
  17. ChinaCatSunflower002

    ChinaCatSunflower002 Members

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    You ask for verifiable evidence and then refuse to look at it when presented because “Parapsychology is not real”. Got it. Nice circular logic you got going on there.

    “Most of the commonly repeated skeptical reactions to psi research are extreme views, driven by the belief that psi is impossible. The effect of repeatedly seeing skeptical dismissals of the research, in college textbooks and in prominent scientific journals, has diminished mainstream academic interest in this topic. However, informed opinions, even among skeptics, shows that virtually all of the past skeptical arguments against psi have dissolved in the face of overwhelming positive evidence, or they are based on incredibly distorted versions of the actual research.”

    “Because no plausible explanations remain for the experimental results, today the few remaining hard-core skeptics rehash the same old polemical arguments used in past decades. The core assertion is the tired claim that after 100 years of research, parapsychology has failed to provide convincing evidence for psi phenomena. This argument follows a certain logic. Skeptics refuse to believe that psi
    experiments, which they admit are successfully demonstrating something, are in fact actually demonstrating psi itself. By stubbornly insisting that the results are real and unexplainable on the one hand, but those results could not possibly be due to psi on the other, then of course they can claim that parapsychology is a failure. This is like a skeptic who refuses to call a group of nine players who win the World Series a “baseball team.” In that case, the skeptic can simply smile, shrug and doggedly claim that yes, people do apparently go running after balls that other people occasionally hit with a bat. But still, after 100 years there is no solid evidence that anything called a baseball team actually exists.”

    “Of course, some skeptics have made important contributions to the development of progressively stronger evidence by systematically ferreting out design loop-holes, and by insisting upon stronger and stronger empirical evidence. But because skeptics today can no longer demonstrate plausible alternative explanations, all that remains is rhetoric and defense of a priori beliefs. Persisting in this stance in the face of overwhelming evidence has produced some excellent examples of minds struggling with logical contradictions. Honorton summarized his view of the state of skepticism as follows:
    “There is a danger for science in encouraging self-appointed protectors who engage in polemical campaigns that distort and misrepresent serious research efforts. Such campaigns are not only counterproductive, they threaten to corrupt the spirit and function of science and raise doubts about its credibility. The distorted history, logical contradictions, and factual omissions exhibited in the arguments of the … critics represent neither scholarly criticism nor skepticism, but rather counteradvocacy masquerading as skepticism.”

    “Their reasoning is simple: If you start from the position that an effect cannot exist, then why bother going to all the time and expense to actually study it? It makes more sense to use every rhetorical trick in the book to convince others that your opinion is correct, and that all the evidence to the contrary is somehow flawed. This may seem like a perfectly reasonable strategy, but it is not science. It is much closer to an argument based on faith, like a religious position. The fact that most skeptics do not conduct counter-studies to prove their claims is not well known.”

    “Skeptics are fond of claiming that believers in psi are afflicted with some sort of abnormal mental condition that prohibits them from seeing the truth. Skeptical psychologist James Alcock has suggested that one motivation for this “affliction” is that psi researchers are really motivated by hidden desires to justify some form of spiritual belief. This belief, according to Alcock, has biased psi research to such an extent that he believes there must be something wrong with it. But Alcock’s belief about hidden spiritual motivations have produced an equally strong counter-bias.

    We may now turn the tables on Alcock and ask what motivates skeptics to spend so much time trying to dismiss the results of another scientific discipline. For Alcock, it seems that his feelings towards organized religion and his fears about genuine psi are motivations. For example, Alcock has written,
    “In the name of religion human beings have committed genocide, toppled thrones, built gargantuan shrines, practiced ritual murder, forced others to conform to their way of life, eschewed the pleasures of the flesh, flagellated themselves, or given away all their possessions and become martyrs.”
    And,
    “There would, of course, be no privacy, since by extrasensory perception one could see even into people’s minds."

    Dean Radin | Skeptical About Skeptics

    Plenty more nuggets in this article. Thanks guys for literally behaving exactly as it was explained in the article :cool::rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  18. ChinaCatSunflower002

    ChinaCatSunflower002 Members

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    The nice thing about non-biased Dice Rolls is I can’t hallucinate the statistics. Go ahead and don’t believe me. I don’t give a shit. You’re just a typical cynic masquerading as being-pro Science. I’m actually running actual experiments. Maybe next time I’ll film my results and you can go on about how it must be edited fraud. You guys are too typical and predictable in your responses.
     
  19. ChinaCatSunflower002

    ChinaCatSunflower002 Members

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    I explained what it all has to do with. You didn’t take the time to read or care to try and understand anything that I was talking about. You guys are not open-minded in the slightest.
     
  20. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Excellent explanation of your opinion / stance on psi, Chinacat.
     

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