CIA and Waterboarding

Well said, Firefly. This is not a black-and-white world. I wouldn't want it to be, either. I'm just glad I don't have to make such decisions.

Actually, torture has been carefully studied, scientifically, for centuries. Immense amounts of notes and information has been recovered and studied. The unreliability of torture is as proven as anything in science. There are no "shades of gray" when it comes this issue- at least none based on reality. The military has no interest in torture, but it's being forced upon them because it's Republican Party policy to promote torture.

Aside from the fact that it doesn't work and is immoral to the most extreme degree possible, it is a waste of time. Time that could have been spent using interrogation methods that are ethical and which have shown high degrees of success.

 

exactly. How does torturing ever possibly get what we want? If we torture them they'll just give us false information, anything to get us to stop. We need to come up with more non-violent techniques.

 

I agree NailPolish. Very good point.

Torture is merely another form of violence. Violence only begets violence.
Besides the quality, reliability of the "information" obtained from torture is questionable.

Torture only gives temporary perverse satisfaction to the sadistic torturer but it doesn't go to the root cause of the problem. Since it doesn't reach the root cause of the problem, the problem remains unsolved, and will merely pester again and again. Therefore, torture is ineffective and useless.

On the other hand, since torture is violence, it will only promote more violence.

 

Notice how every high-ranking military official who speaks out in opposition to "war on terror" administration policies soon "retires" or is removed from their post?

Loyalty over truth seems to be the biggest priority.

 

Phew, everyone's suddenly turned up to back me up here lol, thought I was fighting a losing battle.

 

more like a bunch of retired military cooks trying to get attention

 

more like a bunch of retired military cooks trying to get attention

Some of those "cooks" served in combat, and would do your body a lot of harm if you talked that kind of shit to their faces.

 

The TERRORISTS that have been water boarded have given up a lot of useful info that has saved hundreds if not thousands of our troops and Iraq lives. Look, it sucks I know. I dont want us there either but we had no say in it. Now we have to deal with it. Stop dreaming for peace and start praying for it. Our pull out from Iraq has to be done right or many of Iraq citizens and our troops will die unnessisarily.

 

I'm with Rainbow. Whoever takes the reigns next year has a mess (and lots more blood) on their hands. I just hope people give the new prez a chance to unravel it all before tagging them a "failure." Everyone knows this debacle is Bush's legacy. We like the soundbite of "pullout" because we like instant gratification. But it's not going to happen. We can't believe that just because Bush is gone, the wound he inflicted will instantly heal.

 

anybody here ever been waterboarded? or know anybody who has?

 

I don't hang out with or know any terrorists so I cant say as I do. Do you? My grandfather was a POW in WWII and the Japanese did some horrible things to him. A lot worse than water in his face...

 

I know you were under-exaggerating, but it isn't exactly water in the face, it's the filling of the lungs with water.

 

no it is NOT the filling of lungs with water, that would kill you... its causing the percieved effects of drowning on someone in order to put them through high amounts of mental stress, so they will do anything to take away that feeling of drowning, including spilling the beans on what they know

 

Not sure if anyone else has already said this, but it's been confirmed that a total of 3 people have been waterboarded.

All of which were Al-Qaeda members, one of which was the guy who beheaded Nick Berg on camera for the world to see.

If you feel sorry for THIS guy, you might might wanna go see the Dr. to get that bleeding heart looked at.

 

I would suppose what one discussed on a public forum vs sitting around a campfire drinking some brew with a couple buddies may be a dramatic difference in violating the terms of a non-disclosure contract. That said, different lines of work may require one to be familiar with the risks involved, and training for those risks may be a valuable experience at some point in that career. Tied to a bench with a towel placed over your face with a water hose pouring down is an experience I would imagine one would want to end almost immediately. I'm sure we have all been swimming under water and have ingested water nasally and through the sinuses, causing severe caughing and a feeling of choking. Waterboarding is that sensation, continuously. It is more of a psychological breakdown than a physical, such as sensory deprivation, which imo is much more sucessful in information extraction. Sensory deprivation is also something one may want to train for, depending on the occupation they choose. Until you are broken down, you will never know what your personal limits and weaknesses are. Knowing that is invaluable. It could save your life. Anybody who has been in the Army knows what it is like being broken down physically, some in the Navy may know what its like.....West Coast Allstars hoo-rah!!

 

Not sure if anyone else has already said this, but it's been confirmed that a total of 3 people have been waterboarded.

Well, if a Republican said it, then that of itself makes it true. To Republicans, anyway. But for those of us who live in the reality-based world, claims made by war criminals and their defenders count for nothing.

 

As has been pointed out, it IS the filling of the lungs with water:

wikipedia:
Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward (the Trendelenburg position), and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages.[1] Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent.

The lungs and breathing passages are slowly filled with water whilst a doctor monitors the events. When the water reaches a certain level, the water is tipped out. Then the process repeats.

 

As late as November 2005, water boarding was on the CIA's list of approved "enhanced interrogation techniques" intended for use against high-value terror suspects. In a nutshell, water boarding makes a person feel like he is drowning.
Water boarding as it is currently described involves strapping a person to an inclined board, with his feet raised and his head lowered. The interrogators bind the person's arms and legs so he can't move at all, and they cover his face. In some descriptions, the person is gagged, and some sort of cloth covers his nose and mouth; in others, his face is wrapped in cellophane. The interrogator then repeatedly pours water onto the person's face. Depending on the exact setup, the water may or may not actually get into the person's mouth and nose; but the physical experience of being underneath a wave of water seems to be secondary to the psychological experience. The person's mind believes he is drowning, and his gag reflex kicks in as if he were choking on all that water falling on his face.

so how does the water exactly go into the lungs

 

I believe in some cases an incline table is not used. The intent is not to have to person drown, as Acga said, it is to break the subject down psycologically. While I'm sure this process has been done every way possible, there is a reason why this technique is used, and a method has been found to have the best results. Try it with your friends and loved ones and see what the results are! Next time your wife won't have sex, waterboard!!!

 

The hood of a Humvee is slightly inclined. I stand corrected