Christmas. A Christian holiday?

Once again please look at the customs of Easter or whatever you wish to call it, once you go beneath the thin veneer that is called Christian you will see that all the customs (hot cross buns, eggs, rabbits, getting up early, and in some cases even the name) are of pagan origin.

So why should Christians mix pagan worship with their worship? If God has rejected these things, why would Christians want to keep dragging them back in.

But in the final end what counts the most is the fact that Jesus did not ask Christians to celebrate it and there is no record in the Bible of his disciples celebrating it. So why do it?

 

Do you think that Christians should celebrate anything at all then?

I mean, if they can't celebrate Christ's birth, or his death and resurrection, what can they celebrate?

 

Well clearly rabbits and eggs didn't play a huge part in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, but also didn't play a big part at that time. So that's no reason either.

Eighth century, so approx 700 AD? After the death of Jesus?

 

Here's a good source:

I'm citing a book called "The Golden Bough" by Sir James Frazier. He spent decades studying world religions, and humanity's slow painful progression from magic (if we dance we can make it rain), through religion (if we pray and sing, we will please the gods and they will make it rain), to science (we can't make it rain).

Frazier talks a lot about Christmas and Easter. Early Christian leaders, in an attempt to "sell" the religion to the masses, co-opted pagan holidays. They stole Christmas from the Mithras (who rivaled Christianity early on but died off). On Dec. 25 the Mithras celebrated the "nativity of the sun" and portrayed the sun as an infant. It was a solstice celebration. The sun was coming (or the "Son").


Frazier says Christianity stole Easter from pagan Adonis and Attis myths. Adonis was the god of corn. Spring was here, everythig was turning green, so Adonis must be back from the underworld. It's a vegetation festival. It's a resurrection myth.

Incidentally, Bethlehem means "house of bread." In the Bible Jesus says "I am the bread of life." It's all about food. Harvests. Vegetation. Humans gotta eat. We tend to pick gods who feed us.

Frazier even found records of pagans complaining that Christians were stealing their ideas ... copycatting.

Christians had no festivals. It was hard to get people on board. So Christian leaders borrowed heavily from other religions to give people something to celebrate. It's doesn't make Christianity illegitimate; it just makes them very good at public relations.

 

For one thing they should celebrate life every day but as for a religious celebration Jesus did ask Christians to celebrate the Lord’s Evening Meal or Memorial. (Lu 22:19; 1Co 11:24)

 

As I mentioned above:

"So why should Christians mix pagan worship with their worship? If God has rejected these things, why would Christians want to keep dragging them back in.

But in the final end what counts the most is the fact that Jesus did not ask Christians to celebrate it and there is no record in the Bible of his disciples celebrating it. So why do it?"

 

Because Christians believe that He died to save us. I think that that is a pretty good reason to celebrate it. No, he may have never have said 'look here people you must celebrate each year around the time that I died' but if people feel that it needed to be marked, then so be it.

Besides I think celebrate is the wrong word.

 

Thanks, what you cite shows where these things come from, earlier pagan religions.

Jesus said that apostates would enter the flock disguised sheep and would mislead many, I would say that the ones called “Christian Leaders” in your post are these apostates and by bringing in this pagan worship into the church they have mislead many,

 

Christians honor Jesus and his sacrifice, not by making it up as you go along but by listening to him and doing what he asked for us to do.

Besides Jesus already had set up a Celebration at the time of Passover, why almost ignore that and make a big deal out of what is a pagan celebration?

 

They are not disobeying Him by having Easter, they are remembering that sacrifice and showing Him that it hasn't been forgotten and that people know what His sacrifice actually means.

Let's say a good friend of yours made a big sacrifice but didn't say that you needed to thank him, or somehow pay them back for what they did. Would you not feel or want to do something in return? If it was a big event that happened would you not remember the anniversary?

I'm not Jewish and I don't know much about their religion so I can't say whether or not people ignore passover in favour of Easter.

 

The problem with your illustration is Jesus did say what to do and it was not celebrating Easter.

If you want to mix paganism with true worship fine go ahead but Jesus didn't like it when the Jews did it and I don't think he'll like when Christians do it either.

 

You are entitled to your atheist opinion.

 

And your entitled to your Pagan one.

 

Mark Twain:
"If Christ were alive today, the last thing he would be is a Christian."



The way we celebrate holidays only scratches the surface of how Jesus's teachings have been distorted into what is basically now a consumer-cult. We practice religion like we go to the mall: Because it feels good. I don't think that was Jesus's intention.

 

Jesus didn't want to promote religion, he wanted to show people the truth and highlight what we needed to do in our life. There is a difference between faith in God and religion. Yes religion has become distorted, but Christianity is about knowing God and knowing Jesus and follow his teaching, not about what days we should celebrate, the right prayer to say or whether we take holy communion on Sunday.

 

Amen. Throw out the money-changers!
:cheers2:

 

or whether we should follow Pagan customs or not?

 

Oooh you can't let it go can you?

 

If you wish to mix Pagan practices with Christianity, go right ahead, there is a long tradition of doing so and you'll have plenty of company on the road you travel.

I just prefer my Christianity unadulterated.

 

I thought your claiming that "getting up early" was pagan. I guess the women going to minister the funeral spices to Jesus were pagans for getting up early That was a joke BTW, I get what you are talking about. Whilst I do agree that some of the traditions that many Christians use are of pagan origin, I think it is important to remember why Christians celebrate the Resurrection.

But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied​

Look at 1 Corinth 15:13-19. St Paul writes that without the resurrection, our whole faith is bunk. It the single most important event in all of human history. I am gooing touse the Catholic example, because it is what I know best. Every week, we celebrate the resurrection. Traditionally all Fridays were meatless because it was a remembrance of the crucifixion, Sundays became the "new Sabbath" because the resurrection is so important to the faith of Christians.
What is interesting that I don't think has gotten much play on these boards yet is a first century tablet that seems to speak of a dying and rising messiah before the gospels were written down. If it indeed speaking of such a thing, where does that put the Christian faith (this best be left for another thread).

I still think I see a problem with your logic that all of Easter is pagan. Is remembering and celebrating Christ's triumph over death, the cornerstone of all Christian faith pagan? Or are eggs, rabbits, et cetera pagan and the resurrection fine?