Christians Eating Pork.

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Jimbee68, May 22, 2024.

  1. Jimbee68

    Jimbee68 Member

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    "And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man."



    Mark 7: 17-20.

    "About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.' 'Surely not, Lord!' Peter replied. 'I have never eaten anything impure or unclean'."

    Acts 10: 9-14.


    Not that I care. But those two verses, both in the New Testament, seem to contradict each other. First Jesus says it's okay to eat pork, obviously. And then later on, after Jesus dies, Peter, the founder of Christianity, still refuses to eat unclean meat. But there's a reason why they conflict. Jesus was obviously talking to the larger audience. Pagans converted to Christianity, mainly. Peter was still a Jewish Christian. So he still didn't eat pork.

    Some churches like the Seventh-day Adventists and Worldwide Church of God still refuse to eat pork. And that's their choice. Actually, pork is very unhealthy anyways. Just don't tell the rest of us how to live, please.
     
    Toker likes this.
  2. Piobaire

    Piobaire Village Idiot

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  3. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    i remember the time at a restaurant, when Jane asked the waiter whether the dish contained 'wiggly worms'. The look on his face was priceless.
     
  4. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    As I understand your question, you see a possible "contradiction" between Mark 7:17-20 and Acts 10: 9-14, in that if Jesus said it earlier, Peter should have been aware of it. I don't know what the answer is, but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say maybe one or the other or both didn't say what's being attributed to them. Neither Jesus nor Peter were accompanied by stenographers who recorded their comments at the scene.

    A major issue in the early church was whether or not Gentiles had to keep Torah dietary laws, circumcision or other ritual "works of the Law" in order to become Christians. Paul said "No" in the late 40s-early 50s--fifteen to twenty years after the death of Jesus, and his view eventually prevailed--setting Christianity on its path of becoming a largely Gentile religion. But he had very vocal opponents in the Jerusalem church, including a faction of Jewish Christians called Ebionites--or what Paul called the "circumcision faction". They were still around in 65-70 c.e., when Mark wrote the first gospel, although their influence declined thereafter when they had to flee elsewhere after the Roman sacking of Jerusalem. Mark's Gospel reflects the Pauline view applied to dietary laws. If Jesus really said what it attributes to Him, it's not surprising that He ran afoul of the Temple authorities! But it would be surprising that many in the Jerusalem Church apparently didn't get the message. Luke's Acts was probably written in the 80s. Apparently, the matter was still an issue then, and Peter is brought in. The message was that nothing is naturally defiled. When Peter was reproached, he gave his vision as a reason why he associated with Gentiles.
     
  5. Desos

    Desos Senior Member

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    These verses do not contradict each other. Mark 7 isn't about food. Read the next few verses in mark 7:21-23:

    Mark 7:20-23
    [20]And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
    [21]For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
    [22]thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
    [23]All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

    So what Jesus is saying is that defilement comes from your heart. But it does suggest that eating "non-cosher" foods also doesn't defile you.

    I would also suggest reading the next verse in Acts.

    Acts 10:15
    [15]And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”

    In fact I would recommending reading all the way to acts 11:18:

    Acts 11:18
    [18]When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

    In this passage the vision that Peter had was the beginning of the Spirit showing him how Jesus' grace was also being extended to the gentiles. The gentiles would have been unclean in the eyes of the Jews. So again this is less about kosher food and more about the gospel being given to the gentiles.

    But we can gain more understanding from romans 14:19-23

    Romans 14:19-23
    [19]Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.
    [20]Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.
    [21]It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
    [22]Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
    [23]But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

    I take this to mean that simply it would be better to eat what is before you than to offend someone. And it would be better not to eat if it would offend someone. For example if you sat down with some people and they served up a big pork dinner then it would be rude not to eat it. But if you were eating with a bunch of Jews then it would be rude to offer pork because it might offend them.
     
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  6. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    Good. But i think what was troubling Jimbee is that after Jesus made this clear, members of the Christian community including Peter still didn't seem to get it and were making a big deal about the dietary laws. That's just people, I guess. If we read the gospel of Mark, the disciples do seem to be pretty dense at times.
     
  7. Desos

    Desos Senior Member

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    The apostles certainly didn't get everything right away.

    John 14:9
    [9]Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

    You have to remember that originally every christian was also Jewish. I'm sure it would have been unthinkable to eat pork at the church in Jerusalem at the time.

    Galatians 2:11-12
    [11]Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;
    [12]for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
     

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