Christians are Terrorists!

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by skip, Apr 20, 2007.

  1. umm...ya

    umm...ya over joyed!

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    I think most of the bible is open for interpritation... One thing that I have always been taught is that man wrote the bible so it is not perfect neither is religion. People choose to make the Bible and their religion fit their own ideals of what they think is right. All Christian faiths do that. I believe in God and Jeasus and everything but I am open to the fact that not everything that I read is true. I think that is the really problem with most Christians. They are so set on being right that they close their minds to anything else. So they loose out on what is good about the Bible and God.
    I don't believe that all Christians are bad but some are. I have gotten to see both good and bad first hand and it makes me sad that people that I know are good people doing things that aren't so good because they think they are doing them in the name of God.
     
  2. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    AMEN! You've actually advanced the argument here with that statement. I was saying good people become "good" christians.

    You're taking it a step further saying that GOOD PEOPLE commit BAD ACTS because they became Christians.

    That's a whole nother point, and supports my last post above, how good people with good intentions could actually destroy a native culture because they imposed a Western Religion, Christianity upon a self-sustaining, innocent people.
     
  3. umm...ya

    umm...ya over joyed!

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    Skip...

    Thank you for taking that the right way. I know that faith can cause alot of confusion in people. Not just Chrisitians. I think and you can have faith and an open mind. It is not that hard you just have to think a little bit more.
     
  4. steffan

    steffan puffin

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    often its not because they became christians, but because there goverment did. christians do have a tendancy to be backstabers tho, maybe justifing it with the whole love thi neighber thing, then following all the examples of intolerance taught to them
     
  5. steffan

    steffan puffin

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    Had a thought about this, its not so much your walking down the street christians that give me the heebeegeebees, its the church 4 times a week activist type christian that seem to be more concerned with pushing there cause than they are with the negative effects of there actions that bug me.
    Like this pusher who came to my door once told me "alot of people are walking around saying there christian but dont think about what that realy means" Don't know how many tithers he actualy hooked with that line but he sure seemed proud of it.
     
  6. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Yes, Steffan, that is something that bugs me a LOT! Christians see themselves as misisonaries who must convert as many "sinners" as possible. Like they're gonna get Jesus Stamps for each one or something...

    Meanwhile they REFUSE to own up to all the pain, suffering, torture, misery and death that Christians have imposed upon the world.

    They IGNORE everything other than the words in one book. Like 2,000 years of Christians repressing non-christians never happened...
     
  7. hippie_chick666

    hippie_chick666 Senior Member

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    What about christians repressing each other, Skip? You didn't even touch on that. Ethiopians were the first country to adopt Christianity as their state religion. Because they practiced a form of christianity different than europians, they were looked down upon and repressed because they weren't the "right type of Christians." That is total bullshit that not too many people, christians included, know about. People need to study where their religion comes from.

    Peace and love
     
  8. steffan

    steffan puffin

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    I think many of the pushers of christianity are takeing the psychotic stance that if they can get everyone to agree with them, then they are being rational. everytime I have spoken to one on the subject there arguments where so lame and inflexable I always got the impretion they are trying to convince themselves.
    I worry about such actions, psychotic behaver isn't just a genetic or chemicel condition, but one with a seed in a person enviorment and education. Denial has a domino effect and if taken as far as perscibeing an ineffectual and falible human personality to the universe all a person would have left would be denial. A simple Karmic truth.
    The fact that such actions are so commanplace shows the real need for cumminity interaction within the species. I wonder how these same people would be if first exposed to the simpler less regamented how to live your life earth cultures.
    who realy needs to stop ignoreing are all those who go around saying they are christians just because there mommy told them they where. It seems when I get most alone and discuss there beliefs it turn out they dont realy believe.
    these are the ones we need to reach because they are supporting and nurtering that system.
     
  9. hippie_chick666

    hippie_chick666 Senior Member

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    good points steffan!

    Peace and love
     
  10. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    What I have found to be a universal truth is that when religions don't have other religions to attack, the believers eventually turn against their own. So as long as there's a scapegoat, it keeps the believers united (just like the Nazis did).

    In another thread, I posted up a list of genocide/mass murders Christians undertook before the Crusades. In them was at least one instance where thousands of Christians were killed because they thought differently from those who killed them. It's just like Shiites vs Sunnis.

    Here's another example. If the Israelis didn't have the arabs and Palestinians as enemies there would likely be a war between the Orthodox and Reform jews. The only thing keeping them together is their common enemies.
     
  11. steffan

    steffan puffin

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    Times of strife causes conflict Skip, if there wasnt religon people would find some other excuse to take what they feel they need to survive. and there have been instances of cultures going along peacfully for as much as a thousand years.
    thinking about it though they have been cultures where religon was not a centrel theme in the peoples lives
     
  12. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    Please consider the idea that these atrocities are not solely the result of Christianity. I know history reasonably well and, of course, there is no good reason for these atrocities. They never should have happened, but they do not represent Christianity any better than the Manson Family represents what it means to be a Hippie.

    Are the Ideals of Christianity to be abandoned just because someone violated them?

    That is exactly the same logic behind "honor killings," the practice (in some Middle Eastern cultures) of shooting one's sister or daughter if she is raped, since her violated body represents the violation of the family's honor. It makes no sense.

    Christianity, and all legitimate religions, are based upon an ideal. There have always been spiritually retarded, underdeveloped people who have claimed identity with that ideal even as they violated it by committing stupid, destructive acts in the name of that ideal. There is no reason, however, to assume the Ideal itself is wrong.

    Do you really believe Humanity was just innocently enjoying life in a perfectly blissful wonderland before Christianity existed?

    Peace and Love
     
  13. Zoomie

    Zoomie My mom is dead, ok?

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    Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

    Burnings, hangings, stonings, pressings, these were not common in Europe. Only in America, since we've always loved our barbaric penalties. The most common penalty for witchcraft was to be excommunicated, then either chained to the oars of a ship or imprisoned for the rest of their natural life (which wasn't long anyway).

    If it wasn't based on Christianity, exactly what were they excommunicated from? And why was the bible so specific about the penalty?
     
  14. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    Good question.

    My first thought is maybe violence is just an evolutionary remnant. Five million years of looking for more effective ways to club one's fears into meat paste will make you horny for the loud, messy, pointy, explody solution to your problems.

    On the other hand . . .

    A human being is basically a walking mind, so completely overwhelmed and influenced by perception, intuition and thought that one does not even recognize any reality beyond what he or she THINKS it is.

    From the dumbest to the smartest, from the most delusional to the sanest, from the most malicious to the most enlightened, every human acts according to what he or she thinks reality is.

    The problem with this, and its solution, is simple. Eventually, it is likely that a convincing majority of people are going to conclude that reality is either one thing (a dangerous world where everyone who is not one of "us" (obviously good) is one of "them" (probably evil) and must be treated as though the fate of this hopeless, human food chain depends on how wisely one uses one's weapons) or another (a divinely inspired creation-in-progress, populated by a single, unified, extended family of humanity and, ultimately, all other lifeforms, wherein one's ultimate personal fulfillment is identical to the creative expression of one's unique talents, perceptions, intuitions and thoughts for the benefit of as many as possible). Today, almost everyone believes it is something in between these two extremes. But, if this collective epiphany ever happens, then humanity will adjust its behavior and veer off of whatever path we are currently on.

    It may be that the path we're on is perfect, whether we know it or not, and everything is the way it is supposed to be. It is what it is.

    But, if I had to vote for one new reality or another, however, I would have to choose the happier of those two. I am an idealist. I am a blue state voter.

    As I understand it, Christianity speaks to both of these extremes. For the "dangerous world" people, it is a refuge, a source of hope, a promise of a better world than this one. For one bullshit reason or another, some people in this camp lose faith in this "vision" and revert back to the mindset of survival by any means necessary without ever getting to get to the "divine inspiration" part of the trip. My guess is these are the ones who commit the atrocities.

    For the "divinely inspired" people, Christianity is one expression of its own Ideal, which exists to help everyone realize, individually and collectively, what this reality of ours may actually be.

    Who knows?

    Peace and Love
     
  15. steffan

    steffan puffin

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    oops, thanks for the correction
     
  16. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    Sometimes people have bad ideas about good things.
    Sometimes people do bad things with good ideas.

    If this doesn't worry you, then maybe you are making the same mistakes.
    If this does worry you, then don't do as they do. Question your information.

    Seek a bigger picture.

    Be conscious of the good ideas and the good things people do with them. They are at least as real as the bad stuff.

    Be aware of the bad ideas and the bad things people do, but don't let that define your reality.

    Religion discusses a single, unified, absolute reality. This is a good thing. The problems, the horrors of religion, arise when those with a dysfunctional understanding of reality imagine a more or less distorted version of this absolute reality, one that serves only to validate their ignorance, intolerance, fear, hatred, violence, destruction and so on. He who believes so will behave so.

    It is probably a mistake to disregard anything on the basis that some people are not very good at it.

    Peace and Love
     
  17. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    Why? What are your thoughts?
     
  18. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Science also believes in a single unified reality. No God needed.

    If anything most (but not all) religions are IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with science anymore. Their teaching are at ODDS with reality as our science perceives it today, and have ALWAYS been at ODDS with science.

    So if you accept a limited belief system like Christianity, you MUST reject much of what modern science tells us, and PROVES to us (unlike religion, which relies on faith, not facts).

    BTW, science is ALWAYS "seeking the bigger picture", whereas religion is always seeking to EDIT the picture so it looks a certain way, so that they don't need to change their beliefs system to accord with reality!
     
  19. Varuna

    Varuna Senior Member

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    The Unified Field Theory is an article of faith. Science has yet to create a proof for what it is, but most scientists believe it is probably true. I believe it.

    And yes, it is true, science neither accepts nor denies any definition of God.

    Science and religion are like miles and memes, both are true. But just like measurement and meaning, they are not interchangable.

    Why? I have a degree in Anthropology. I accept the Big Bang, Human Evolution, Relativity, String Theory, and the mathematical probability of extra-terrestrial life. I am inclined to accept all legitimate faiths. I believe every religion has something priceless to say about what it means to be human.

    There is no reason to believe or disbelieve any of these ideas, but I am willing to bet that you believe many things that cannot be proven by "facts." Like . . .
    • The Beatles were better songwriters than Tiny Tim
    • Good healthy sex will almost always make you happy
    • Cannabis is a far more benevolent plant than tobacco
    • Children are born innocent
    • Humans are the most intelligent creatures on earth
    • and so on.
    Religion and science are dangerous only if you abuse them by forcing them to replace your own capacity for responsible, critical thought.

    I don't know if I can agree with that. It is probably a mistake to assume that this human tendency to focus on what one knows best is an inherent facet of the specific institution in which one works.

    Most scientists are specialists working in fields that are very narrowly focused. Though one may do good work, there is often no professional reason for any scientist to have anything more than an intelligent layman's knowledge of other fields.

    Of course, this is also often true of religious specialists. Most Baptist Ministers know very little about the Qu'ran, I know a Rabbi who has never read the Gospels or the Bhagavad Gita, and it is a statistically safe guess that you've never heard of the Dhammapada.

    As any honest mystic will tell you, reality is ultimately an unfathomably vast mystery that no-one is fully prepared to comprehend.

    Peace and Love
     
  20. Zoomie

    Zoomie My mom is dead, ok?

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    BLASPHEMER!!!

    You've obviously never heard "Santa Claus Has AIDS".
     

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