Discussion in 'Christianity' started by skip, Apr 20, 2007.
That's what the fuck I thought.
You complain you can't debate because you believe your being censored correct?? Read the rules, then read my post......it will make sense.
seems I was a bit to brief as usual, you have missjudged my stand
no, I'm not being censored, why would I want to publicly debate myself?
You're not making alot of sense steffan....
I would think, understanding the message of Christ as I do, and knowing the billions of dollars that is funneled through churches just in the United States that the issues of homelessness, poverty and disease would have been solved long, long ago. Christianity spends millions of dollars to lobby political figures which is exactly counter to the teachings of Christ.
Consider the Book of Matthew, Chapter 22, verses 16-22:
16And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
Please bear in mind that the Herodians were attempting to push Jesus into openly defying Caesar, but he was by no means deceitful. By parable he was saying that it is the duty of every child of God to pay his taxes, and to give his soul to God. Jesus also told people who wanted to follow him and his teachings to sell all that they owned and give the money to the poor.
And yet Christianity still pushes a fair amount of sheckels to support its political agenda rather than using all that money to solve social issues of Jesus' day and our own.
This is political and economic terrorism against their own countrymen and is counter to the teachings of Christ.
Funny, you need a heathen to point this out to you...
if they (christians) are denied the oppertunity to try and prove there theores then I am denied my oppertunity to debate them
I see what your saying finally but for the record you're communication skills leave a bit to be desired....I still don't feel anybody is being censored though, Skip just wants to focus the conversation into reality and out of fantasy, kind of hard to debate someone who's sole tactic is spewing nonsensical rhetoric.
Christians are not terrorists. Terrorists pose as Christians so people will listen to them. Seriously.
Varuna, I was asking skip about the new rules for the Christianity forum...thought you were doing the same.
I think you've got me mixed up with someone else...I try to engage people in rational dialogue; in this paticular section of HF, that's been pretty difficult to do until very recently.
With the very obnoxious fundamentalists gone, those that specialize in equally-loud criticism of them consequently have no one to harass, and I see that they are not posting much anymore.
Skip's right; things are quiet here now and intelligent voices can be heard. I disagreed at first, but now heartily endorse the new rules.
Wow, talk about censorship! Who would have imagined, a Christian forum where you can't even quote from the Bible--the very foundation of the Christian faith!
I would refute Skip's "tolorent" Jesus, but seeing as how I can't quote Jesus' own words, my task would be that much harder.
Skip, I think the proper Gospel is simply that Christ died for our sins and resurrected on the third day. Fear, I think, plays no role, only submission.
Nope, sorry, I disagree. That is hardly the "proper Gospel", but merely your shorthand for it.
In the bible, starting with the OLD testament, people are taught to FEAR GOD and most of those other things in my list.
BTW, where does Jesus tell us to FEAR GAYS? I must've missed that one...
Yet, that seems to be a major preoccupation with Christians, regardless of the color of their stripe.
Are you telling me that Christians HAVE NO FEARS? That's just BS.
BTW, the FEARS are used to RECRUIT people, preying on their FEAR of DEATH.
Christians ALL SAY BAD things happen to NON-CHRISTIANS when they die, no? They don't go to heaven do they? So what does happen to them (in your own words).
Tell me that is not FEAR mongering of the worst sort? Plain and simple Terrorism. Be a Christian or your soul will have Eternal Damnation, no?
That's even MORE SIMPLE MINDED than believing that there are 72 virgins waiting for martyrs. The carrot works just as well as the stick.
Likewise, good people pose as Christians so Christians can say they are good people.
But that is the Gospel, I suppose I can't quote the scripture but I can point you to were it is found: 1 Cor 15:1-4
The word "fear" in this context only means reverence or respect, the same fear a child has (or at least should have, I think) for his parents. In fact when it comes to "fear" as in "terror" (which is how you're understanding of the word) God regularly says "Do not fear" or "Don't be afraid..."
When did I say that?
Than that should tell you that they are not practicing what the Bible says. I'm sorry, but no one is perfect Skip.
That was never my intention nor was that point of your post.
In the same way that you are preying on peoples' fears and negative conontations of terrorism, no? How does this make you any better of a person?
Non-Christians, I believe, will go to Hell. Now, let's take a look at the flip-side of this. Christians will go to a place where they will forever praise and worship, and glorify this Chrisitian God. Does that sound like a place you would like to be in?
Secondly, why don't you take a look at the "salvation sermons" given by the apostles like the one given by Peter in Acts 10? Do you see fear as a basis anywhere in their messages? God, I think, makes it pretty clear that He wants genunie trust, love, and submission as the basis for salvation, not fear.
You're gonna have to show me where "fear" is ever the basis for salvation in the Bible. I won't argue that God never uses fear to cause a person to truely examine their human situation honestly, however, I will deny that fear is ever the true basis for salvation. Someone who accepts Christ out of fear of Hell, that is, he uses Christ pragmatically as a means to his own end, does not truely understand what it means to accept Christ.
I'm sorry for whatever made you this angry Skip.
I'm a Christian and I assure you I'm not a terrorist.
Skip, I wholeheartedly agree with you.
As I understand it, what you have stated is precisely the Jewish conception of God.
I think no-one really knows entirely what the name, "God," stands for. Whether it actually is the original, ultimate reality, or just a convenient word humans use to label their thoughts about what is good (an intellectual address book, if you will), or both of these things, or something else altogether, it is certainly helpful and inspiring to think about . . . whatever it is people are refering to when they speak of "God."
I think, ultimately, religion and academia fulfill the same purpose. Whether one sees some significance in what they teach is a whole other story.
The patterns of nature, the laws of physics, the significant events of the past, the thoughts of admired predecessors, all of these things exist independantly of whether or not one studies biology, physics, history or philosophy in an institution of professors and students. The chances of an individual rediscovering this information entirely on his own, however, is probably pretty slim.
Because God is essentially abstract, transcendent and infinite, it is difficult to speak about God without relying on necessarily inadequate concepts and words.
For those of us who are not professional philosophers, any reminder, however imperfect, is appreciated. Reminding people to realize God is one of the primary purposes of religion. If you don't need to be reminded, well . . .
I think Smokindude said it really nicely:
Yes, but these are the things people struggle with. These are the things that people have to work out on their way to realizing the higher IDEAL of a God that transcends ALL limitations. Helping people get this stuff out of the way of their realization is one of the other vital purposes of religion.
Christianity and Terrorism are antithetical to one another. I don't know how anyone can reconcile Terrorism with Christianity, or any other religion. I don't know any sane reason why anyone should.
Brother Joseph, as far as I know, you are a shining example of an open-minded conversationalist. The fault is entirely mine, sometimes I am a language oaf. Please don't take it personally. I was talking to the non-specific pronoun I like to refer to as "the Royal You." You know "some people" "they," "a certain man," "this guy," "one."
Thanks for the blessings.
I agree. I do like Skip's idea that you can speak your mind about whatever you like, but it has to be your own understanding instead of some scriptural cut and paste. I think it is difficult to talk with someone who doesn't know his own argument.
Peace and Love
Just say no to religion.
Have you NOT read ANYTHING I've posted in this forum?
I guess you never ever heard of the Spanish & French Inquisitions, or witch burnings right here in the USA. If that wasn't terrorism, I don't know what is...
It still amazes me how Christians can ignore 2,000 years of their own history, and just focus on ONE BOOK, like nothing else Christians did to the world (and continue to do) matters at all.
Then there's the cultural terrorism of Christian Missionaries (there's a topic for another thread), forcing natives to give up their traditional, sustainable lifestyles (like hunting and gathering in rainforests), to start tearing down the rainforest so they could grow crops and cattle.
And that's just ONE example out of thousands where Christians have DESTROYED native cultures, even here in the USA. That is even WORSE than what is happening in Iraq.
Separate names with a comma.