Christianity, really?

I suppose it's a "pagan doctrine" that God is all-powerful, and there was no violence or disease in the Garden?

That's an awful lot of maybes. Which is why I'm not foolish enough to think that if there's a higher power, any religion has any idea what the answers are.

Like hell they were. Those imbiciles didn't even have knowledge of good and evil. And God wanted them that way. Or did he? Because the sadistic bastard put the Tree there, and allowed a serpent to tempt them into it, then punished future generations for it.

No. Once AGAIN... because I am not omniscient and omnipotent. He's got nothing but the time, to do what is effortless.

I try, and then when I think we're getting somewhere, you tell me you don't believe something as universal as the idea that God is omniscient and omnipotent. You pull stuff like this so often, frankly I wonder if you don't just come up with it because you got argued into a corner and beaten.

The only people still as infantile as Adam and Eve in the Garden were are those who think there's such a thing as "bad words".

Do you believe the Bible is God's Word, or are you a precious unique snowflake on that front, too? Because it's well documented that it was compiled and manipulated by tyrants, crafted to advance their agenda.

 

It’s written in the Bible that God is almighty.

As for the Garden of Eden it does not say that there was no violence or disease but it can be assumed so. But then you said; “paradise where he coudln't be hurt” and in paradise if someone tripped and fell they could hurt themselves and that was what I was answering.

What does my use of the word maybe have to do with whether “any religion has any idea what the answers are”?

But they did have knowledge of good and bad, didn’t they know that eating the fruit of the tree was wrong?

Didn’t God teach Adam and Eve the eating of the tree was wrong?

Putting trees on earth can hardly be called a sadistic act and reserving one of those billions of trees to himself can hardly be call sadistic either.

Do you do everything you are tempted to do?

God did not “punish” future generations for it, that mankind suffered from it, is what resulted from the bad act of Adam and Eve. If you had sex with a sibling and your children were retarded that is not a “punishment” for having sex with a sibling, that is just the result of you having sex with a sibling. Likewise, Adam and Eve made themselves imperfect and thus passed imperfection to all future generations and that was not a “punishment” from God.

Some how being omniscient and omnipotent means that God should prevent us from using our free will, if doing so would be harmful to us? Then why give us free will at all, robots would do just as well. Just remove all decision making from us and then we can’t make wrong decisions.

And God's fixing the problem is hardly effortless.

You can read all my posts if you want they are a matter of public record and see if I just come up with this stuff. But quite frankly, I’m very consistent in my beliefs and I’ve said nothing there in this discussion, that I haven’t said many times before in other discussions.

As for the idea that God is omniscient and omnipotent, the Bible never uses those words but it does said God is almighty and all-knowing.

But then the Bible also says that there are things which it is impossible to do. It is impossible for God to lie, for instance.

You actually believe that there is nothing wrong with abusive speech? That explains a lot.

Yes, the Bible is the word of God.

As for it being “well documented that it was compiled and manipulated by tyrants, crafted to advance their agenda”, well good luck with that.

 

stop discussing this heathan religion! convert to the church of the flying spaghetti monster! we have proof that our god is numero uno! we also have tasty spaghetti communion. take that you flavorless-wafer eating fools!

 

I'm Italian, so what do I want with more spaghetti?

 

I rarely ever hear someone say "maybe" when it comes to religious texts. They're infallable.

How could he teach them what was wrong if they didn't have knowledge of good and evil. That means they don't know what's wrong. And for someone who didn't even want them to know the difference, he and the Bible are sure bossy as hell.

He didn't have to create it at all, and he didn't have to put it in the reach of people who couldn't understand why they shouldn't eat from it until after they already did. No, I don't do everything I'm tempted to. I know the difference between right and wrong.

Again... I wouldn't have a problem with the story if he were portayed as a sociopath, like the Gods in almost all other religions. But this one is just as cruel to his subjects, and it's contradicted by bullshit pronouncement that he's infinately loving.

No one made God come up with and enforce this consequence to the event that he made almost impossible to avoid...

Why did he give us free will, when he had so many demands? So many demands that are totally irrational and insignifcant, like just about everything in Leviticus? And I don't know how many fucking times I have to tell you that he doesn't have to use mind control to stop suffering. He's ALMIGHTY.

Well, that's exactly what the words mean. And if it's not effortless, and it takes him thousands of years... he's either cruel or not almighty.

Oh, no you di'int... God told Adam and Eve that eating from the Tree would kill them. A LIE.

Apart from the "harshness" of my language, there's no difference in the way you've spoken to me.

Oh, for Fuck's sake. It's called the "King James Bible". There's a ton of information written about the enclaves that compiled the canon, and who these people were. There's no coincidence that the canon includes all the stuff that was about being obedient and unquestioning, and much of the Gnostic stuff that was left out is so liberating and challanging.

 

:smilielol5:

Many people that have posted on this thread use multiple versions of the bible and varying translations of it to attempt to square the circle of there faith, "a man of just one book" many of these posters are not...

 

I was not talking abut a religious text, I was talking about something not directly covered by religious text and thus said maybe.

And yet they knew that the eating was wrong, before they ate. Interesting.

I’ve yet to see any Scripture that says God didn’t want Adam and Eve to know the difference between good and bad, perhaps you would be so good as to show it to me.

There is no evidence that the tree in question was any different than a million other trees of the same kind. God just selected a tree and said, for whatever reason, this one is mine and you can eat of all the other trees but do not eat of this tree.

Once again, both Adam and Eve knew it was wrong to eat of the tree before they ate of it.

So did Adam and Eve.

You keep using the word sociopath and yet you give no proof, sounds like school yard name calling to me, with a little abusive speech thrown in for good measure.

And I suppose you have a problem with gravity as well.

Demands? What demands did you have in mind?

How would you know what God needs to do or not, it would seem that God is in a better position to know what is needed and what is not, what is possible and what is not and how much time and effort it takes.

A lie? Interesting. Have you talked to Adam and Eve lately, Oh wait, they’re dead.

I would say the “harshness” of your language is a pretty big difference in of it’s self.

Yes the "King James Bible" is called the "King James Bible". But you might notice the "King James Bible" is merely one translation out hundreds, you could try a different translation or if you want you can take the time to learn the original languages and read it without translation.

Personally I find the Bible, as is, to be liberating and challenging, perhaps you missed those parts.

As for the “stuff” about being obedient, personally when the Bible says things like; ““You must love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore love is the law’s fulfillment.” and “Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.” I just don’t see a problem with being obedient.

And about being unquestioning, then why does the Bible recommend; carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so?

 

I thought "to attempt to square the circle of their faith" was a really nice turn of phrase.

 

No offense but have you ever honestly read the Bible, or do you know any true facts about Christianity or being saved. Thats all the reason right there why they would go to hell. There are other easily pointed out reasons to. From what I understand out of what your saying it says that you get to make your decision on what you want to do and believe and where to go once you die and get to see heaven or hell. NOPE when you die your just done all decisions are final.

 

No offense but have you ever honestly read the Bible, or do you know any true facts about Christianity or being saved or are you just believing what you been told?

 

No point was proven bro. Its not what church you go to or what religion you name yourself. Its your actually faith and whether or not you are saved by the blood of God. The Bible is all the religion and church you need. But I doubt you know what any of this means. And OWB Im sure you know I wasnt saying the whole media pumped definition of Christmas was not what I was talking about.

 

haha, I noticed that too. Maybe the Bible is rubbing off on him.

 

To answer your question yes iv done my reading and know what the truth is no i dont follow anything blindly. As far as you go im not so sure because the best answer you could come up with was just restating basically exactly everything i said and pointing it towards me. Good job bro you got yourself no where with that one.

 

Other than stating that people go to hell, what point did you prove? You say that people go to hell and that people only have one chance. Do you believe that a loving God would send people to eternal torment?

In my study, and the study of others, and of OWB (he has stated more on these forums other than you commenting that he made a rehash of what you said) we looked into the meaning behind the original word used to describe 'hell' which is 'Sheol' which means the grave or pit.

The ancient Jews actually only had two conceptions of sheol. 1. That Sheol was a place where thoughts perish because we are a 'living soul', meaning our entire being is attributed to our bodies... so it's another way of saying death as secularists understand it to be. 2. That Sheol was a place where everyone would go to... it was a spiritual realm where spirits would drift and barely have an existence.

But looking at the context reveals which one is the true understanding of Sheol. Throughout the Bible it refers to a place where thoughts perish, and in Ecclesiastes, it recommends that 'We should do whatever we can find to do, because where we are going there is nothing to do'. The rest of the Bible has many reasons why we should render 'Sheol' as death, but it is also known as 'rest' because that first death is understood as 'indefinite'.

I recommend taking another read of Ecclesiastes.

Example: Ecclesiastes 3:20 (All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.)

"For dust you are, for dust you shall return".

 

All my point is religion and church are just words you can say you believe in God or you can go to church every sunday of your life and still go to hell. You have to truly have faith and truly be a saved born again christian to make it to heaven. That is the truth. And if your actually thinking the Bible says hell is just a place and thats where everyone goes and you can do as you please cuz you end up in the same spot anyway then you are most definately misreading or selective reading or something.

 

Which part did you have in mind, the birth of Jesus? Do you celebrate it on Dec. 25, the date of the pagan Saturnalia or on about Oct. 1 or 2 the time that is most likely for his date of birth?

 

I enjoy the sentiment and I felt and still feel the same way when I used to go to mass in Catholic Church. I would say to myself; "Why do people go to church only to be good for on hour a week and then forget to be good hoping that will give them eternal paradise? Shouldn't it mean more than that?"

All I am saying is that hell in the Bible is something different than what you believe it to be. I could be wrong and I could be selectively reading the text but am I and could it be that you are?

God is a merciful God and will give everyone a chance but not without some struggle.
Being a born again Christian is important, but even non-Christians are loved by God because God see's us as all equal and as his children and strives to lead everyone back to him.

 

You know of course there is a difference between reading the Bible just to try and find support for what you've been told is truth and reading the Bible actually find the truth.

As for pointing it back at you, don't say it if you can't take it being turned back on you.

 

OWB is the type of guy who leaves his stockings on the wall all year round just to be safe...

 

Yes a do know there is a difference I dont think you do. Im sorry but it seems that way. And I can take what I say being put back on me just fine. Its just usually people only do that when they have nothing of importance to say and try to kick a little dirt before their ship sinks.