Christianity, really?

If he truly attempted to guard it from them how is it that they were able to eat it in the first place, in other worlds god allowed it to happen.

Free will is an illusion when your speaking about an all knowing all loving god.

 

I knew you were drawing on science fiction all along.

 

He guarded the tree of life. Yes, he allowed them to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because he gave them free will. We have freewill to choose whether or not to be in fellowship with him.

 

My question about the whole fruit thing wouldn't be why did god let them eat it, it would be why did god put the magic tree there in the first place? For those of you who believe the modern view of Christianity, god put a magic tree in the garden fully knowing that they would eat it, which results in most of mankind burning in hell. What the hell motivated god to put it there?

 

The tree called, the knowledge of good and evil, is a name like maple or eucalyptus. He was a liar from the beginning, the knowledge of good and evil is not knowledge but a false perception. An interloper on Gods' judgment, that becomes a slander against the holy child of God.
God says we surely die because the knowledge of "good and evil" is not the knowledge that puts us in good stead with our father or sustains us, but rather that we are his perfect creation and perfect creation his endowment upon us.
We are forever deceived in this sin, that we have the capacity to judge a nature that we did not create.
There is a proper use for our powers of discernment and that is:

Is it true or is it false. If it is false, it is by definition not true and therefore not real.
What is it for. To determine function.
Is it the same or is it different.

 

He put it there so that they could have the option to be like him and have the knowledge of good and evil, but that brought with it the potential for suffering and death.

 

But he didn't tell them that, the snake did. God told them not to eat from it or they would die, he didn't warn them about the evil talking snake. I assume that they were as impressionable as little kids, having no knowlege that there are things that lie, or cheat.

So when god allowed the evil talking snake to tell them they wouldn't die, and they could be like god, They could be no more to blame than a three year old if I told him his mom would laugh really hard if he told her to go fuck herself.

They didn't know what they were doing, and god not only allowed the magic tree to be there, but also allowed the evil talking snake to sway their (up to that point) pure and innocent minds.

 

Thanks, perhaps now you can tell me where it says that means they have to eat of it to know good and evil or are you just assuming that?

If you have read the Bible account, perhaps you forgot where God told Adam it was wrong to eat of the tree and where Eve told Satan that it was wrong to eat of the tree, both before eating of the tree, maybe that just slipped your mind.

Thus both Adam and Eve knew what was wrong and right before eating of the tree and obviously did not need to eat of the tree to know it.

So what does the tree being called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" mean? It means that if they were to eat of they would be then deciding for themselves what was good and evil and rejecting what God had said on the matter.

Once again you are saying you know better than God how to fix things but quite simply you don’t. God is fixing the problem, not only the best way it can be fixed but the fastest way it can be fixed. He could only be called a sociopath if he was not fixing the problem.

God didn’t throw all of mankind out of paradise, he threw only Adam and Eve out. As a result of getting themselves thrown out their children were born outside of paradise thus it is Adam and Eve’s fault that their children are not in paradise not God’s.

Yes, I've heard of it and don’t particularly think of it as demanding thus the request of you to state what you think is demanding about it?

No, I don’t deny that God is almighty but then I don’t deny that he is also all-knowing and thus knows better how to correct the problem than you do and that is why we are still going over this, because you believe you know better than God.

I’m being completely serious, did they die or not?

And you say God is almighty and now he is powerless to pick and chose which writings went into the Bible, God’s word. Interesting.

Acts 17:11, here you go:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2017:11&version=NASB

 

You do not understand the Biblical meaning of "all-knowing and almighty". Yes, the Bible clearly states that God is "all-knowing and almighty" but the Bible also states clearly it is impossible for God to lie. So what are we to make of that? That yes, God is all-mighty but that does not mean that God can do the impossible.

Once again, the Bible does NOT say that Adam and Eve did not have the ability to know right from wrong until they ate of the tree. You are assuming because the tree was called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" that Adam and Eve had to eat of it to know right and wrong but nowhere does the Bible say that.

The fact that Adam was directly told by God that eating of the tree was wrong and would result in death shows that Adam knew it was wrong to eat of the tree before he ate of it and Eve told the serpent that it was wrong to eat of the tree and that eating of it would result in death before she ate of it. That seems to show that both Adam and Eve knew what was right and wrong before they ate of the tree.

Not because we learned morality but because mankind took morality into their own hands and basically told God we can do a better job of deciding our own morality.

By the way how do you think that's working out?

Yes, God made the rules and he lives by them as much as we do. God can not break the rules just because you would or you think he should.

Genesis makes sense; it’s just some, for one reason or another, don’t want it to.

 

First, it wasn't a magic tree. It was just a tree, probably just like a million other trees just like it. It was only special because God said he was reserving that tree for himself. The Bible does not say why he reserved the tree for himself but he did. Perhaps so Adam and Eve could show their love for God by respecting his wishes.

Second, God did not know Adam and Eve would eat of the tree. When God gave Adam and Eve free will he had to give up knowing what choices they would make.

Third, you already know I don't believe the Bible teaches a burning hell.

 

Once again you are mistaken.

 

First of all, this post was in no way directed at you. I said the modern view, but looking back that probably wasn't specific enough.

I posted this before reading your posts about how the tree was Adam symbolicly telling god he knew better. That idea was really eye opening to me and makes a lot more sense than what I was always told.
However, I still stand by my last post (minus the magic tree part)

And like I said, the post was directed to those who do believe that god know the future and do believe in a hell.

 

First and foremost, I believe the Bible is the word of God.

Then I believe the Bible is not contradictory, if you believe something and another part of the Bible seems to contradict it then that should resolved by looking at what the rest of the Bible says on the matter.

I also believe that all beliefs that seem to have pagan origins are suspect and those beliefs should be rigorously compared to what the Bible says and if the Bible does not clearly and plainly state that belief is true, that belief should be promptly be discarded.

There are more specifics but these are the basic principles I go by.

I try not to assume I know what others believe and try to discuss only what they say they believe and even then misunderstandings occur.

That’s nice to know but what is "plur"?

I’m 62 but age is not a problem to me, as long as you are thoughtful and have something to say, I may not agree but I’ll listen.

 

Sorry, I knew it wasn't directed at me and probably should have stayed out but I just had to comment on the magic tree part.

 

Like has been said, the Bible in no way gives an exact date for Jesus birth but maybe this will help you get an approximation:

In the book of Daniel, chapter 9, we find one of the most impressive prophecies regarding the Messiah. It describes both his coming and his being cut off in death, which provided a ransom sacrifice to atone for sin and establish a basis for obedient mankind to gain “righteousness for times indefinite.” (Daniel 9:24-27; compare Matthew 20:28.) According to this prophecy, all of this would be accomplished within a period of 70 weeks of years, beginning in the year 455 B.C.E., when the command went forth to rebuild Jerusalem. (Nehemiah 2:1-11) From the time division in this prophecy, it can be discerned that the Messiah would appear at the beginning of the 70th week of years. This occurred when Jesus presented himself for baptism in 29 C.E., officially beginning his Messianic role. “At the half of the week,” or after three and a half years, the Messiah would be cut off in death, thereby bringing an end to the value of all sacrifices under the Mosaic Law covenant.—Hebrews 9:11-15; 10:1-10.

This prophecy reveals that the length of Jesus’ ministry was three and a half years. Jesus died on Passover, Nisan 14 (according to the Jewish calendar), in the spring of 33 C.E. The equivalent date for that year would be April 1. (Matthew 26:2) Counting back three and a half years places his baptism in 29 C.E. at the beginning of October. Luke informs us that Jesus was about 30 years old at his baptism. (Luke 3:21-23) This would mean that Jesus’ birth also was near the beginning of October. In harmony with Luke’s account, the shepherds would at that time of year still be “out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks.”—Luke 2:8.

 

How can I be a McDonalds Christian If Im not of a specific religion. My faith and beliefs are from God and the Bible so you are incorrect yet again. The fact that you dont seem to get alot of the through to your head that are the simplest things proves to me that for the time being you are not going to see what you need to see. Many of the people are on seem to only being seeing what they want to to make it what they want. And no religion such as Catholism or Protestant what ever you want to use came before God and his workings so yet again they pulled what they wanted from God and bending it to make what works them and for not believeing the Truth they spend eternity in hell. As avatar said Im going to agree but to more then one specific person alot of you are heretics.

 

ok, if you say you arn't a baptist, but believe everything your church teaches, (im assuming this is the case, I could be wrong) then you are, because you share the exact beleifs of the McDonalds christians. However, if this is not the case, then you have taken the beleifs of the McDonalds christians and changed them to what you think the bible says.

I think its fair to say that you do this the most out of all of us.

I wasn't saying the religions came before God, the catholic church was started by Peter. (I could be wrong, sombody correct me if im wrong) It seems like, as a follower of Jesus, you should follow the church started by a disciple of Jesus.

 

After they ate the fruit God said that they had become like one of us. So the snake didn't lie. They had become like God and didn't die imediately. All that God had created was good. There was no evil.

Agree. Except for the evil.

The tree had a purpose to open their eyes, but perhaps Adam and Eve weren't ready for it yet. Kinda like a 2 year old playing with a hunting rifle.

 

But that leaves a few questions open:

1) Why did God punish Satan and why Did God say that there would be enmity between his offspring and the woman's offspring?

2) Does the Bible say that they would die immediately or that they would die?

3) Could that statement about becoming like 'us knowing good and evil' have meant the upheaval that occurred in Heaven?

4) Most importantly, why did Jesus undergo his mission?

I don't believe it's about knowing good and evil in the sense of not knowing right from wrong, but more like claiming they know what is right and what is wrong that goes against God's understanding.

Personally, I see God's plan as to prove once an for all that his way is the only way and to remove all lingering doubts about God's intentions; A way to lighten the hearts of even his Angels because even his angels claim that they know Good and Evil while only God knows of such a thing.

 

It is knowledge in that it gives us the ability to create things. The first thing Adam and Eve did after their eyes were opened was to create clothing out of fig leaves.

Agree. We make false judgements then try to fix the supposed problems by creating stuff. This leads to us to trust in our stuff instead of our source. As it says in Timothy "money is the root of all evil". Money stands for materialism.

Explain.