Christianity, really?

Everything you just said is wrong. A I havent ignored your questions. B I dont know or particularly care what other religions say. C I never said follow my religion or burn in hell if you really have been paying attention to anything I say its not religion. Its your faith, beliefs, and being born again. I dont personally believe in "religion" I guess if you had to name me one Im southern baptist but you can be southern baptist and go to church every sunday and end up going to hell. It doesnt save you, so it makes no difference what you call yourslef.

 

And honestly I feel everytihng your trying to say or believe is just a cop out so that you can think you can govern yourself and not have to answer to a higher power which will only lead you to more pain and sorrow. Its the same as what agnostics or atheists would say its a damn cop out bro.

 

Okay, I'll tell you why you celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25 because that's when all pagans celebrated the Saturnalia or the winter solstice and it was thought that it was easier to convert a pagan holiday to being "Christian" than it would be to just convert the pagans to "Christianity". That way when the pagans went ahead and celebrated the winter solstice, "Christians" could say look they are no longer celebrating the winter solstice they're celebrating Christmas, when in actually those "Christians" had been tricked into pagan worship.

Also I would like to know why you celebrate it at all, seeing as the Bible does not ask you to and there is no record of Jesus' followers celebrating it in the Bible.

And why would anyone say Jesus was born on Dec. 25 let alone make a big deal of celebrating on Dec. 25, the date of a pagan holiday. When almost everyone knows the Jesus was born about the first or second of Oct. I mean since you are suppose to be celebrating the birth of Jesus, who is "the way and the truth and the life" you would think you would at least try to get the date right or at least not try to celebrate it on a date that was already established as a pagan holiday.

 

What the hell does the winter solstice have to do with other religions its the changing of seasons its a naturally occuring phenomenon. And how are you and "everybody" so sure its the beginning of october where it says no where in the Bibly any date. Find me some scriptures from the New King James Version of the Bible that can back up any of what you said. And I dont want just one or two skimped verses. That in no way counts. Please and Thank you.

 

A. You never responded when I asked about the people who hadn't heard of Jesus except by saying that everyone has heard of Jesus. You never answered how a loving god could send someone who strived for holyness all their life but picked the wrong religion straight to hell, while Hitler having had a deathbed conversion gets to live in paridice with god.

B. If all the other religions have the same threats and promises as yours, shouldn't that tell YOU something? Oh well, the threat of eternity in hell is a nice inspiration to convert, it worked on you. Or are you a Christian for the sole reason of your parrents raising you that way? Imagine a nice Muslim boy raised to believe in Islam just as strongly as you believe in Christianity. There's no way he's going to convert unless god apears to him and tells him to follow Christianity.

Or, what if Islam is true? When you are being judged for not following muhamed, you will be told that you had your chance. Would this be just considering you were totaly convinced you were following the truth?

C. Not that it matters, but the defenision of religion is

"A belief concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe."

I'm pretty sure Christianity falls under that catagory, and you are telling me that if I don't believe what you believe is the purpose of the universe (religion) Im going to burn in hell

 

Jesus Christ may have been the son of god. There are personal reason for me to consider it. However, that does not persuade me towards the life of the bible. A life of love indeed, in the spirit of Jesus Christ, yes. But Also in the spirit of god, that has taken shape in the spirit of humanity, and SO MANY other humans, because in so many of its shapes and forms its a calling for us to be one with God and the Spirit once again. Like most religion and spirituality. The bible is like many religious scriptures I refer too, except it is stories. The stories, unlike many non-monotheistic religions, offer one narrow path, which I believe ultimately lead to path of no self, but one with god, a free and loving will, but not what the disenchanted from the universe consider free will.

Jesus is its one main positive, but so many Christian's make him the one main negative, a restricted perspective. That Jesus is the one and ONLY son of god, therefor the message that is CHRISTianity, should be all that should be part of our soul. I could apply this negative as a similarity in all monotheistic view points (which is disappointing considering I believe in the one big picture that is god). However, it's like Christians make Jesus to be the one main truth that sets them above all others (including the thousands of non religion defined practices and paths of spirituality).

It also seems like for many that Jesus is some sort of safety blanket for the insecure to use, to hide. When the existensial question is raised and in what is a land abundant with setbacks towards Moksha here and now. Love is most definitely an answer, but when all sorts of yin and yang act on your soul, how will you go beyond your faith, and reach for all that is in your dreams. That which is stepping out of your comfort. This even leads me to think that these restrictive religions leave out so many aspects of the communion with god. It's so simple that it's almost an illusion to so many people that they are in communion with god by having simple knowledge they are forgiven, if they accept one way.

I struggle day in and day out in positive and negative ways for the communion with god. Being comfortable with the loss of self, which is giving in, and letting go of the ego that thinks it can be independent of all. Instead I want to be living by the forces of universe in the adventure it takes me on. There is an eternal destination opposite of the existensial aspect of life. In my realm of existence there is no destination but the adventure and journey. All that is concrete is not eternal, I believe eternal lays for discovery in another dimension, perhaps only in the afterlife. Which could very well be some awe-some collage of all the journey.

So if Moksha is the escape from the cycle that is birth death birth death, one must reach moksha in existence to make the eternal destination.

Chosing what I see as a path of restriction would be blinding myself to all the other aspects that come into consideration when I try to let go and become one of with the beyond.

 

Well if you feel iv been ignoring your questions thats not what iv been been intentionally doing. And I will get to them, but first I would like to know exactly what you and old water brother do believe then. Its obvious you know what I believe so you know what your dealing with but I have no idea on either of you. After this I will try to answer your qusetions as best i can. And remember please Im not trying to be mean, rude, judgmental or anything. Im not meaning any offense to any of you because not only does it go against my religious beliefs but im also a big believer in plur so... Also just as a simple question how old are you? It feels like Im the youngest person here.

 

Thanks for that post man, very nicely put.

If I understood this right, I agree with the idea that the bible has some truth in it, but the idea that the secret of the universe lies in having a simple belief doesn't make sense.

 

"If I understood this right, I agree with the idea that the bible has some truth in it, but the idea that the secret of the universe lies in having a simple belief doesn't make sense."

Also nicely put, pretty much my point. Christians also chose to make attachments to morals which matter only in an existence devoid of the bigger sense. Many of the rules restrict a life in social and political manners, as well as rules against knowledge of the metaphysical beyond Christianity.

I just think god is so much more.

 

Me and OWB have very different beliefs, so don't group mine in with his or vise versa.

I believe there is truth in what Jesus said, but I don't believe the secret of life is the easy 2 step program into eternal life. That however, is an apealing idea to our modern culture. I can see myself having a belief in some form of Christianity sometime in the future (similar to OWB) but as of right now, I'm realizing to form of Christianity I was brought up in (your beliefs almost exactly) doesn't logicaly work. So currently I'm doing some "soul searching" I guess you could say. And at this point I'm studying touism, I identify with it on a MUCH higher level than I ever did with Christianity.

Oh, and my goal isn't to win an argument, my goal is to find truth, christianity
Just seems ridiculous at this point (at least the Christianity you follow)

And I'm 17 as well, so no, you arnt much younger than me.

 

Alright- I wasnt grouping you two together i was meaning i wanted to know both of your beliefs. Its quite easy to tell they are different from eachother. Ill be eighteen in feb. but its good to know theres at least other people my age that even bother. Whether or not they have it right. And last how is it not logical.

A. Give me straight examples of people who could have NEVER EVER had their chance. You dont strive for holyness, that is actual a bad thing to try to be holy. If Im understanding it correctly anyway, thats what satan was trying to accomplished and got cast out of hell for it. And God doesnt send you to hell you banish yourself to hell. Its about being a born again believer, not being "holy". And in my personal opinion as evil of a person as Hitler was he couldnt have possibly been born again. If he really did ask for forgiveness it was probably as a show. But in the events he really did do it and truly meant it yes he would have went to heaven. It doesnt matter where or when you do it, as long as its before you die. When you ask for forgiveness and are born again it doesnt matter who you were or what youv done God washes your slate clean. Thats the purpose of it. If it was meant to be any other way then God wouldnt be God. Thats a part of what makes him just and loving. You can be the innocent little kid down the road or freakin Ted Bundy (just an example) as long as you truly mean it and understand what you are doing you are forgiven and born again.

B. Yes that does tell me something the Bible had it right, and when people tried coming up with other random religions they just took that part to try to decieve and seem more legit. The thought of an eternity in hell doesnt seem pleasant at all to me that much is true, but if it came right down to it its not the make or break thing to me in my faith. There is ALOT more to it then that that keeps me where I am. Yes Iv been raised in this faith, does it mean Im brainwashed. No. Does it make me any lesser. No. Im not a person that just blindly follows something. If I believe in something, its because of my own choice and my own will. And luckily enough for me Islamic faith doesnt have it right, and there is no Muhamed to answer to so I dont have to worry about that. If your truly looking at other religions including Islam the only thing that has always been and always will be proven is true christianity through the Bible. The only prophesies that ever truly came true as told and will come true as told come from the Bible. Why believe in something that cant be 100% backed up?


C. Secular defintion or not. Its all the same and to me in reading that it only makes me more comfortable with what I believe and what I say. Once again its not your religion, or from what that defintion says "belief in the universe" its your faith and belief in the Bible and in God.

 

-The people who were murdered in the name of Jesus durring the crusades
-The native americans (before columbus showed up)
-I promise you there are millions of people in arab countries, who may have heard the name of Jesus, but know as much about him as you do about Hinduism.

Ok, fine. A buhdist striving his whole life to be rightious.

So, just to be clear. Hitler would go to heaven, and the person who seeked truth his whole life, and tried to be rightious, but guessed the wrong religion would go to hell to be tourchured for eternity?

Hmmm... that would make sense, except for the fact that they wernt stealing from christianity. Hinduism was started around 5000 years before Jesus was born, Judism is what christianity is a rip off of, and even buhdism and ancient greek mythology had a hell long before Jesus was born. All hell is, is a concept created by man to terrify someone into joining their religion.

like what?

you would dissagree if you were raised Islamic, you would be positive that Christianity was wrong and you were right. Its intresting that you are so positive you are right, when everyone else is positive that they are right.

That may or may not be true, but thats not what I was talking about. If someone has been raised (as you have) to believe something is completly true, and they live their whole life the best they can, they still go to hell. I was just flipping it around, so you understand that even though you had a chance to convert to Islam, you didn't because you didn't believe it was true. I could say that you just wanted an easyer religion to follow, just like you said to me. (Islam is much strickter than christianity) But that isn't true, you are just believeing (as the muslims are) what you fully believe is the truth. But even though they know they're right, and live the best they can, they go to hell because they guessed wrong?

How is Christianity 100% backed up?

faith and belief in god = Religion
its not "belief in the universe"
its "A belief concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe."

 

What an endless argument. lol

 

Pretty much, I'll let it go a little longer though

 

Hey Lostthoughts. If one could lead you to some good answers to your questions and statements, would you then consider believing in Jesus? Or, are there not any answers good enough? Be honest with yourself. Are you seeking answers here or are you just here to attempt to tear apart the beliefs of Christians that are here?

 

like I said earlyer, I believe there is some truth in the Bible, but I very much don't believe the modern interpretation of the Bible makes any sense, nor does it really follow what the Bible says.

Like MokshaMedicine said earlyer, I believe God is so much more than a simple 2 step way into heaven.

If I got some real answers to my questions (which I don't believe you can come up with without sounding like an idiot) I would be suprised

But you're right, I am totaly fed up with all the christians with beliefs similar to candykid, the beliefs I described in my original post.

If I ever do go back to christianity, it will be a form that is actuly from the Bible, not the skewed version I learned in sunday school.

 

OK, let's converse a little. With your post in mind, i'll share a little.

I don't believe in the modern interpretation either.

Yes, God IS so much more than a simple 2 step way into heaven.

The idiot thing you said shows your not open.

I've been fed up to with many of the interpretations, but I have found better interpretations.

If you go back - to "christianity". Don't bother, come to Christ alone. "Christianity" is not the way etc. /sounds like you were raised in the church. If you don't mind, could you fill me in on what church?

 

I am open minded, but I've heard it all before. I don't think he can answer my questions, but he could suprise me.

I'm from a baptist church, and was pretty much told everything candykid has said

 

If you think that you've "heard it all before", you're probably over 100 years old and have studied interpretations and discussed with others every second of your life.

I'm familiar with the baptist interpretation. There are many views that baptist believe that are in error, imo.

I didn't read this whole thread, so i may ask you some things that you've already answered.

Do you believe that there is a creator of the universe?

 

Some form of one, yeah