Christian sects having belief in reincarnation

The Christian Community is a Christian denomination that had belief in reincarnation as part of its theological doctrine. They consider the soul immortal via reincarnation.

The Christian Community - Wikipedia

 

Catharism was a Christian sect that thrived in northern Italy and southern France between the twelfth and fourteenth centuries.

Reincarnation was part of their religious doctrine.

Catharism - Wikipedia

The Cathars were heavily persecuted to the point of extinction by the Catholic church for their differing theological doctrine , and was the subject of attacks by the Alibgensian or Cathar crusade and the Medieval Inquisition which eliminated the sect completely by 1350.

Many thousands were slaughtered, hanged or burnt at the stake as so-called heretics.

The consequence of such persecution was that reincarnation as a Christian theme or belief became increasingly rare to the point of universal rejection in the Christian world.

 

Bogomilism is considered to be an another Christian sect that had belief in reincarnation and which existed in the tenth century A.D in Europe. Like the Cathars, the Bogomils were also unfortunately subjected to persecution by the dominant Catholic church due to their differing beliefs.

Bogomilism - Wikipedia

Reincarnation :: Paul J. Dejillas

 

Do we have a fundamental misunderstanding about reincarnation.
Ancestry his disproven it on several occasions, by proving that the ancestor could not possibly have been at the place of the memory at the time, but were they on the wrong path.
What is passed down is mental and not physical, so if we spent a few hours discussing a situation on here, although we are thousands of miles apart, that memory will still be in your brain, So via your DNA, could you go on to pass it down.
This would be almost impossible to prove these days. How would your grandchildren possibly know that we had been chatting on HF.

Back in the 1970s I was involved in a program made by ABC television Australia, Following its only screening in the UK, it was taken down for legal reasons.
It transpired that a few days after the regression, one of the subjects died a horrific death.
The part that interested me the most was another subject who regressed to a part of the UK that I know quite well. It was simply the subjects memory of watching from her bedroom window as a child, a guy constructing a mosaic floor.
Following the UK screening, the area local authority investigated and debunked the whole episode as a hoax. They had traced the house and the area of the claimed mosaic floor. The bedroom window did not overlook the area, and a barn stood on the area of the alleged floor.
But it did not end there.
The archaeological society investigated a year later and found that the window did exist, but had been filled in during the 17th century due to a strange window tax at the time. Then the excavated the floor of the barn and found the mosaic floor. It has buried in more than 2 feet of animal waste (Chickens). Carbon dating the waste, proved that the floor was last exposed in the 16th century.
Every detail of that floor was identical the the drawing made by the woman in Australia during her regresion.

 

I read several books on a wide variety of Christian Beliefs. The Cathars were a group that did not follow the Pre Nicean beliefs including the divinity of Yesua, and the Trinity. In addition they had amassed a fortune in gold. The pope at the time wanted the gold, thinking that it was the property of the Catholic Church. The pope hired Tutonic Knights to punish the Cathars and bring the riches to Rome.

 

So is the curse that dooms the entire human race greed, it extends right from your example, to someone simply wanting a better car or house than yours.
Without greed, this planet would never have seen a war. Instead, we almost take wars for granted.

 

I forgot to mention that the term Jesus of Nazareth was referenced. I have two points to add. Nazareth did not exist at the time prior to the crucifixion. The site was a Roman fort and later became a village. The term Jesus was a Roman name, not Aramaic. The correct term properly translated was Yesua the Nazarine. If you replace the Y with a J and the a with an s you end up with Jesus. The Jesus ending is a latin designation for a masculine person, while the ending of a is feminine. We suspect that Jesus was a man requiring the us ending. The term Nazarene is a recognition that he was in the religious organization of that same name. There were a large number of religious groups in Judea at that time including: Nazarenes, Gnostics, and Pharisees, etc. Most of the Nazarenes perished during the Roman siege and conquest of Masada.

 

Not according to Professor Bart Ehrman.Did Nazareth Exist? | The Bart Ehrman Blog
Jesus mythicists like René Salm advanced this myth that Nazareth of Jesus time is a myth. The Myth of Nazareth.https://ehrmanblog.org/did-nazareth-exist/ But Salm is not an archaeologist. Subsequent digs by real archaeologists like Yardena Alexandre and Pro. Ken Dark of the Univeristy of Reading have unearthed substantial evidence that Nazareth did indeed exist at the time Jesus was supposed to ave been around. By Dark's asessment, Salm's thesis that Nazareth didn't exist in Jesus' time is "archeologically unsupportable".

But you're right that Yeshua ha-Notrsri might originally been identified as the Nazarean--the "organization" ("society", "association", or sect) might be a better term). That seems originally to have been the name of followers of John the Baptist, from whom Jesus Himself received baptism. Interestingly, the Mandaeans, an Iranian gnostic sect claiming John the Baptist as their founder and prophet, call their clergy "Nazoreans" and regard Jesus as a breakaway dissident. "The root of Nazarene means: to keep watch, guard, protect, keep, preserve, comply with, and observe. Because of that, some think the name may also be a reference to those who strongly adhered to, and defended, the Mosaic Law." Jesus “the Nazarene” – what is behind the title? There are indications that a major chunk of the early Christian community were ex-followers of John the Baptist. They were similar to the Essenes, who may also have joined the Christian community under the name "Ebionites", but were not celibate and vegetarian. Both were relatively ascetic, which was not a trait the New Testament associates with Jesus. Indeed, the New Testament reports followers of John were shocked at His and His disciples lax practices. After Jesus death, leadership of the Jerusalem Church passed to His brother James, who was an ultra-ascetic Nazerite (נָזִיר Nāzīr)--a person who took the vow in Numbers 6:1–21: to abstain from wine and grape products, haircuts, and contact with corpses. Jesus (accused by critics of liking food and drink too much, and of touching dead bodies) may have been an ex-follower of John (Nazorean) but doesn't seem to have been a Nazerite! After Jesus' death, the term "Nazarene" was used by Jews and Romans to label all Christians before the label "Christian" came into use. They were also called :the Way", a label previously given to Essenes. Ironically, as Christianity became "Gentilized", the Nazoreans and Ebionites were branded as heretic "Judaizers".

 

Hi Tishomingo: It is great to have an opportunity to talk again. I am not up to date on the history of the site of Nazareth. The site may have been occupied for a thousand years before the Romans established a fortified camp on the site. The deciding factor must have been the availability of water. The only citation I was interested was the use of the name Nazareth, which was documented after the death of Yesua. If the name was in use during the life of Yesua, I have no reference to cite. Fun isn't it? The real question to propose is the relationship of John the Baptist to Yesua and his mother Mariam (Mary). John may have been an uncle to Jesus and cousin to Mariam. The only logical theme to follow is their consistent contempt by the family for the sovereignty of Rome. Thanks for the comment Wally

 

P.S. Another reason for believing that Nazareth was actually Jesus' birthplace is that it was an obscure, non-prestigious place to be born--like Jesus of Podunk. It was a small rural village in Galilee, fifty miles from Jerusalem, and Judeans would have looked down their noses at it. As Nathaniel asks in John 1:46: Can anything good come out of Nazareth? Matthew’s said that Jesus “fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that He would be called a Nazarene” (Matthew 2:23) But there is no Old Testament passage with that wording, leaving Christian apologists scrambling to figure out where he got that. He could be referring to the characteristics associated with the term Nazarene (guardian, protector, branch. sprout). The Gospel writers take great pains to have Jesus born in Bethlehem. Luke has Mary and Joseph travel there to satisfy bogus requirements of a census. Matthew has them apparently living in Bethlehem at the time and later moving to Nazareth. The most plausible explanation is Nazareth really was their home town when He was growing up. If it was all made up anyhow, why pick Nazareth instead of Bethlehem or countless other places that had biblical significance.

 

What I read was a little bit different. I think that this version, came from India and the source may have been the Apostle Thomas or Magdalin. As it goes Yosepha and Mariam were traveling to Jerusalem from Gaza to respond to the census ordered by Caesar Augustus. Yosepha owned a trade business {Not Carpenter Shop, (No Wood)} that caravanned from Gaza to India. He had several boats that shipped goods to Italy and Greece. This may be the source of the alleged trip to Wales by Yesua and James to explore a better source for tin. They visited Avalon making a hint for the Holy Graile legends, and provided impetus for Joseph of Aramathia to move to Glastonbury. after the crucifixion. Jesua may also have traveled to Tibet where there are claims that he studied in a monastery there. Yosepha, Mariam, two sons and two daughters and the donkey were traveling to Jerusalem when they stopped at Bethlehem to spend the night. Yesua and Judas were born in Bethlehem that night in a cave on the outskirts of the village. They were not able to find room at the Inn, because Inns did not exist in Judea at that time in history. Travelers usually would seek lodgings at the home of the towns elder. The significance of Galilee was that Mariam was possibly born there. This accounts for the reference to Gallilee as a location for a wedding attended by Yesua and Mariam.

 

That's interesting, but (how can I put this delicately) much of it is probably bogus. Of course it could be true, but I think the evidence is exceptionally weak to non-existent. Even the Gnostic sources have little to say about Joseph. He makes his debut in the eighties, in two gospels. The tale of Mary and Joseph traveling to Bethlehem for census purposes appears exclusively in Luke's gospel. Matthew tells a different tale. There was a census around the supposed time of Jesus' birth, but the notion that people like Joseph had to travel to the place of their ancestor's home is highly unlikely. The purpose of both gospels seems to be to get the couple to Bethlehem, so that Jesus could be born in the city of David--but they get them there by different routes. The Bible says that Joseph was a tekton, which could be any artisan or builder. (They did have carpenters in Galilee back then. The place wasn't and isn't devoid of trees!) But Joe's shipping business seems unlikely. BTW, the Hebrew name is Ιωσηφ (he will increase). Yosepha is the feminine version, the counterpart of Josephine. As for the alleged visit to Avalon, Joseph of Arimathea's visit to Glastonbury, Jesus' visit to Tibet, etc., that sounds like something out of a forthcoming novel by Dan Brown.

The Bible leaves major gaps in the life of Jesus, creating a temptation for people with lively imaginations to fill in. We have a number of apocryphal gospels that never made it in to the canon: e.g., the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, portraying Jesus as a kind of supernatural juvenile delinquent; the Gospel of Peter, with a giant Jesus and a talking cross; the Aquarian Gospel of Levi Dowling detailing Jesus' trip to India, based on the author's mystical visions of akshic writings, etc.and, etc.
I operate in a world of hard core skeptics skeptics, where I'm challenged for saying that Jesus existed, let alone all the miracles and the rest. I settle for substantial evidence--enough to convince reasonable people, even though other reasonable people are not convinced. I agree with the consensus of historians that Jesus did at least exist (Meagain is holding out for "mountains of evidence"), but I can't vouch for some of the rest.

Joseph of Arimathea makes his debut in the Gospels for the purpose of providing a tomb for Jesus--it being the Roman custom let most crucified persons, unless they were rich or had rich friends, stay on the cross as food for scavengers. That's the last we hear of him in scripture. I doubt that he made it to Wales. The Matthew and Luke Gospels, providing conflicting stories about Jesus' birth, appear in the eighties, half a century after Jesus was supposedly crucified--perhaps written to satisfy the curiosity of devout Christians. Nature and religion abhor vacuums. Most scholars reject the claims that Jesus visited Asia, before or after His crucifixion. Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia

 

There has been a lot of Myths about the life of Yesua the Nazarene, mainly perpetrated by the Catholic Church and other activist organizations, which a mass vast riches at the expense of their parishioners (1). The sad thing is that the Vatican knows the truth, and for various reasons is distorting the facts. Yesua appears as a notable figure in the Jewish Religion, Muslim Religion, Buddhist Religion and the Hindu Religion. None of this is a part of the Christian story of Jesus. It all got Ugly with the adoption of the Nicean Creed. There are two Gospels written by Thomas and Magdalen, which are being discounted by the Catholic Church as Irrelevant.

The story of the trial and execution of Yesua is contrary to Roman Law.

The Bible is full of mistranslations and Ideas from other sources. (Adam and Eve (2), Noah's Ark (3)

Yesua was tried and executed under Roman Law. The Catholic Church would like you to believe that his crime was about religion. As I understanding is that the Romans were tolerant of other religions, and accepted deities from Greek and Celtic Pantheons. Crucifixion was saved as one of the most extreme forms of punishment, reserved to violations of Roman Sovereignty and Sedition. In the trial the citizens, who were offered a pardon for one of the accused and responded, give us ba'rabbus (the Arabic term for Rabbi). We really can assume that the commoners and Yesua's followers were pleading for saving Yesua.

The Hindu Religion referred to Yesua as Issa, who was tried and executed for sedition. The story of Issa is almost the same as for Yesua. The Jewish Religion (discretely) believed that Yesua perished with other Nazarenes at the siege of Masada. The Muslims (discretely) believe that Yesua died in Alexandria Egypt, and his family dispersed to Southern France or Ethiopia. They both have experienced disagreeing with the Catholic Church, as documented with the Holy Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. There are citations that Yesua traveled to southern Britain with his brother James and India during his "Lost Years" in Christian History.

The bible claims that Joseph and Mariams family were denied room at the inn. There was no such thing as an inn in Judea nor Israel at the time of Yesua. The term Inn is for the most part Saxon English in Origin from Post Battle of Hastings Vintage. The trade of carpentry did not exist in Judea, because Judea and Isreal had almost no reliable supply of trees for wooden products. Most household items were stone, pottery, metal or masonry. Wooden articles would have to be imported for the homes of the rich. The Aramaic language had no word nor Guild for Carpentry, as in contrast for Masonry.

The Gospels of Luke and Matthew, etc may have the same origin, changing in meaning and drowned in sea of re-translations over time. There was a multitude of monasteries in the middle east in remote areas separated by isolation, governments and time. Joseph of Arimathea did travel to Glastonbury England, and may have been secretly buried on the grounds of the cathedral. I am looking for my photograph of the thorn tree at Glastonbury, which allegedly is a descendent of the tree that was used for Joseph of Arimathea's staff. He also brought with himself some of the Ideas that contributed to ancient Christianity (The Celtic Church and Synod). He was also possibly Mariam's Cousin. These were not poor peasants, but were descendants from two of the key Jewish Houses (Tribes), They included the House of David and the House of Benjamin.

When I used the term Wales, I meant to say Wales Cir 20-40 AD. England Was tribal at that time and Welsh influence was present in Avalon. Rome and Greece were already engaged with trade with the Welsh and Celts, prior to Vespasians invasion. The only one left out were Irish and Caledonians, because they were too barbarian for the Romans to handle.

(1) Check some references on the treatment of pueblo Indians by Spanish Franciscans in the American South West. The Hopi and the Acoma, were virtually slaves of the priests with support of the Spanish army. They were not allowed to practice their native religion and were forced to be Catholics, at the poinnt of a sword. Young men who ran away were hunted down by soldiers and the front half of their left foot was chopped off with an axe to prevent them running away again. Girls at the age of puberty were taken away from their families to entertain cowboys on ranches in central Mexico. They were never heard from again by their families.

(2) . The Garden of Eden may now reference the Area around the Royal Palace in ancient Babylon. Apples were native to China and were no in the middle east at the time of Adam and Eve. This may also include the time of Adams first wife Lilith. Chedder man a Neolithic man (Pre Gilgamesh) found in a cave in the UK has a DNA Match with a present day teacher in the same region

(3) Noas arc is now believed to to have occurred CIR 3000BC
In short Jesus had a lot of great Ideas which have bee distorted in history bu self serving tyrrants like Constantine the Great. He was Obsessed by total power Political and Religious. This all rolls down in history to people like Hitler and Trump.

It Is time for e reckoning - Done

 

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This thread is related to the theme of reincarnation in Christianity and Christian sects.

Those who wish to discuss the authenticity of Christ and christian scriptures can do so in other threads, so as to ensure the present thread is not derailed. Any information regarding reincarnation as a belief in the older or modern Christian sects or amongst Christian theologians is welcome though.

 

I've taken the liberty of moving our exchange to a more appropriate thread, entitled Myths about the life of Jesus the Nazarene. That will give others a chance to join in.

 

A pdf booklet by Geoffrey Hodson of the Theosophical society on reincarnation in early Christianity.

https://www.theosophical.org/files/resources/articles/ReincarnationChristianity.pdf

 

Why don't you cite some of these? A lot of "facts"about Cathars adn and the Albigensian crusade against them are disputed, and a some of books about it are questionable.You leave the impression that the campaign against the Cathars was mainly about money, . I think that's a dubious conclusion. The campaign against them was pursued mainly by the forces of the King of France. Are you sure the Teutonic Knights were involved?

 

If the subject regarding the Cathars is off subject I will not respond to this subject any more. Sorry

 

I have been searching for references that I used above. The family of Yesua from a book on the evolution of Judaism was as Follows: Josepha, Mariam as parents with Josepha Jr., Simon, James, Mariam Jr., Yesua, and Judah. The other sister is Unknown to me. The reference to Teutonic knights and Cathars is problematic. My search goes all the back to my teen years, when I was in DeMolay. I remember researching organizations that the Catholic Church was trying to exterminate by genoside, which included: the Cathars, The Knights Templar (Including the torture and execution of Jaques DeMolay) , the Jews (Spanish Inquisition), the Muslims (Crusades), the Celtic Church (and Jacobites), and Native American cultures including the Aztecs, the Incas, the Mayan's, The Hopi, the Acoma, the Zuni and so on. I might toss in the Christian Church that the Apostle Thomas started in India. The Portuguese destroyed all records of the church by order of the Pope and replaced the locations with Catholic Churches. The Teutonic Knights may have been doing the Pope's bidding in Eastern Europe, so I will retract my reference with an apology. I have to include 29 of my ancestors hanged at Taunton England for refusing to submit to Charles the first and convert the UK back to Catholicism. They participated in the Monmouth Rebellion and paid the price. Thanks for your patience. Wally