Christian, Jews, or Muslims...Can you explain this?

Before 2370 B.C.E. the start of the flood.

The is no such thing different human races.

If you are asking how long it would take for the arbitrary distinctions that are called races to develop after the flood I would say several generations, 500 years tops.

The answer is not 6000 years and that would be in years as we understand them today.

They are not different.

Okay but no one is changing the concept of time.

Okay.

That sounds like your opinion and not based on facts.

How about that, me too.

What have I said that would give you that impression.

Well maybe if that is what I have done but I haven't.

No I don't.

Again you are assuming that the pre-flood Earth is the same Earth we see today.

Why not.

What?

Why not?

Okay I've answered those what else have you got?

God did help them and I have always said the Bible has to be interpreted in a certain way.

Genesis is very straight forward - I don't have a problem with that.

For you perhaps.

Actually the Bible gives a pretty good answer.

Yes flat but not in the sense you are trying to infer.

I said "relatively flat" meaning that the "ball" we call Earth likely did not have the mountain ranges before the flood that we have now.

No they don't.

 

Earthquakes can make the Teutonic plates shift substantially more that 2.4 in in a year. The waters of the flood would have to go somewhere and the weight of enough water to cover the Earth would be substantial. Where did the waters go? Perhaps the weight shifted the Teutonic plates forming not only the mountains like Everest but at the same time the canyons under the oceans, something that could be continuing to this day causing Mt. Everest to grow 2.4 in per year, thus forming dry land where the waters covered it before.

 

Earthquakes are relatively common in the Himilayas even to this day. They don't seem to drastically be changing the rate the mountains are rising.

I've never considered that. If the flood created such drastic changes in the Earth's surface including the creation of the Himilayas then why is the Euphrates and Tigris rivers mentioned before and after the flood in the Bible? Changes in topography would lead to changes in rivers.

Also, if the flood covered the entire earth then how is it possible that ice cores like the one seen below survived? This sample was taken from a depth of 1837m from the heart of a Glacier. Each line represents a year.

 

I wasn't trying to say they were. What I was saying is that the amount of water at the time of the flood could have tremendous shifts in the Teutonic plates forming the mountains and oceans canyons we now see.

True but they may not be the same rivers, just renamed the same or perhaps that area was not substantially changed by the flood and the subsequent Teutonic plate shifts.

I hope I don't sound like I know all the answers. The Bible does not talk about any of this, I'm just giving you what I consider to be reasonable alternative answers to your questions.

Like this one, I would say that the ice was already pretty thick when the flood happen and would not have melted and since the flood only took a year, the flood would have only been one line of millions before it and thousands after it.

 

We have evidence of different races as far back as the 24th century and further. A continuous line uptill today. Civilisation didn't suddenly resume pretty much as it was after this so-called flood.

odonII

"No I don't."

I think Noah and his family were either mediterranean or middle eastern. However many times they procreated amongst themselves (eww) or anywhere amongst their ongoing family tree, they would not produce a child that resembled anything other than somebody that (faintly) resembled themselves - unless another ethnicity entered their genetic pool (as it were).
The reason a coloured person is the way they are, or an asian person is the way they are is due, impart, to their environment - which slowly changes their biology.
That's why I would say it would take longer than a few generations for any significant change.
We can see this quite clearly over the last few thousand years where there has not been a significant influx of migration in a particular environment.
You said: There was no "cross" breeding.
That's kinda how change occurs.
A crow is not going to change into a pigeon over time.
Those 8 people would have to have procreated to an epic degree, and over time their offspring would have had to travel far and wide.
Which is theoretically achievable but highly unlikely.

"The Bible then talks about "days" of creation and since that last creative "day" of rest has lasted to the present those creative days could be 7000 years or more. Thus 7x7=49 or about 50,000 years. "

To be fair, you have not mentioned any great leap in time and space. However, the ark supposedly took 7 days to populate.
Which is a pretty impressive feat for 8 people.

We are talking about a 'boat' that contained a sample of the entire animal kingdom, right? And you are saying this happened, right? Next week: 'Jonah and the whale'.

I was trying to say that the process you are talking about, and the process I am talking about would have had to have occurred pre and post flood.
You have said pre flood the world might have been a very different place.
You have not explained in what way (here).

odonII

"why not?"

Nobody has brought it up!

odonII

"No they don't."

Yes, if you interpret it in a certain way.
For instance, the bible talks about ALL 'kinds' being on the ark.
No provision for aquatic life outside of the ark during the flood.
Yet you have agreed that a provision was made and a myriad of 'species' were left to fend for themselves outside of the ark (the quote you stole off the internet).

It was worth a try

 

the ark may have been more a mud raft than a ship on the seas..

 

What's a 'mud raft'?

 

a ship that dont float on water, but will stay buoyant on mud.. its called fluid displacement, I thinks..

 

http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/teaching/Ag/fluids04/buoyancy.pdf

Gothcha - thanks.

 

Fair enough.

Perhaps, but if the flood covered the entire earth and had the power to create the himilayas and mariana trench it would make sense to me atleast that everything would be dramatically changed.

The questions relate to how the Bible is interpreted. There is literally tons scientific evidence supporting massive floods at about the time the Bible is talking about, but it was caused by melting glaciers after the last ice age and rising oceans. Glaciers would block off rivers creating temporary dams and huge lakes. Suddenly, the glaciers would dislodge and entire lakes would be released. In eastern Washington where I live there are still dry riverbeds caused by a massive flood coming from Montana. To the people experiencing this it would it would be a flood of their entire world.

A glacier would float in water. Imagine trying to keep an ice cude at the bottom of a glass full of water.

 

ice cude.. its what cool cows chew..

 

Orison, I love it when you are a part of any discussion. :2thumbsup:

 

That's how the cool cows survived the flood.

 

I was reading some crazy book today that was saying the flood and Noah's ark had something to do with Atlantis and Martians and Ascended Masters.

Its called "Nothing in this book is True, but its exactly how things are." Cheeck it out!

 

^^^lol

 

I'm sorry guys. I skipped forward two pages. All I saw was completely false and madeup excuses against proven, peer-reviewed, scientific fact. I guess it's true - what I realized years ago. That you cannot argue against a religious person. It's like arguing with a 3 year old. They have countless arguments and rebuttals, and all of them are completely false...but they whole-heartedly believe that it's true, and will never change that flawed belief.

 

Why should everyone be expected to explain their faith to you?

 

Peace be on everyone.

At one place in the Holy Quran, mention about Prophet Noah (peace be on him) is:

Translation

And We sent Noah to his people, and he said, ‘Truly, I am a plain Warner to you, [11:26]
‘That you worship none but Allah. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a grievous day.’[11:27]
The chiefs of his people, who disbelieved, replied, ‘We see in thee nothing but a man like ourselves, and we see that none have followed thee but those who, to all outward appearance, are the meanest of us. And we do not see in you any superiority over us; nay, we believe you to be liars.’[11:28]
He said, “O my people, tell me: if I stand on a clear proof from my Lord and He has bestowed upon me from Himself a great mercy which has been rendered obscure to you, shall we force it upon you, while you are averse thereto?[11:29]
“And O my people, I ask not of you any wealth in return for it. My reward is due from Allah alone. And I am not going to drive away those who believe. They shall certainly meet their Lord. But I consider you to be a people who act ignorantly.[11:30]
“And O my people, who would help me against Allah, if I were to drive them away? Will you not then consider?[11:31]
“And I say not to you, ‘I possess the treasures of Allah,’ nor do I know the unseen, nor say I, ‘I am an angel.’ Nor say I concerning those whom your eyes despise, ‘Allah will not bestow any good upon them’ — Allah knows best whatever is in their minds — Surely, I should then be of the unjust.”[11:32]
They said, ‘O Noah, thou hast indeed disputed with us long and hast disputed with us many a time; bring us now that with which thou threatenest us, if thou art of those who speak the truth.’[11:33]
He said, ‘Allah alone will bring it to you, if He please, and you cannot frustrate God’s purpose.[11:34]
‘And my advice will profit you not if I desire to advise you. if Allah intends to destroy you. He is your Lord and to Him shall you be made to return.’[11:35]
Do they say, ‘He has forged it?’ Say, ‘If I have forged it, on me be my sin and I am clear of the sins you commit.’[11:36]
And it was revealed to Noah, ‘None of thy people will believe except those who have already believed; grieve not therefore at what they have been doing.[11:37]

‘And build thou the Ark under Our eyes and as commanded by Our revelation. And address not Me concerning the wrongdoers. They are surely going to be drowned.’[11:38]

And he was making the Ark; and every time the chiefs of his people passed by him, they mocked at him. He said, ‘If now you mock at us, the time is coming when we shall mock at you even just as you mock now.[11:39]
‘Then you shall know who it is on whom will come a punishment that will disgrace him, and on whom will fall a lasting punishment.’[11:40]

Till, when Our command came and the fountains of the earth gushed forth, We said, ‘Embark therein two of every kind, male and female, and thy family, except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe.’ And there did not believe and live with him except a few.[11:41]

And he said, ‘Embark therein. In the name of Allah be its course and its mooring. My Lord is assuredly Most Forgiving, Merciful.’[11:42]
And it moved along with them on waves like mountains. And Noah cried unto his son, while he was keeping apart, ‘O my son, embark with us and be not with the disbelievers.’[11:43]
He replied, ‘I shall soon betake myself to a mountain which will shelter me from the water.’ He said, ‘There is no shelter for anyone this day, from the decree of Allah, excepting those to whom He shows mercy.’ And the wave came in between the two; so he was among the drowned.[11:44]
And it was said, ‘O earth, swallow thy water, and O sky, cease raining.’ And the water was made to subside and the matter was ended. And the Ark came to rest on al-Judi. And it was said, ‘Cursed be the wrongdoing people.’[11:45]
And Noah cried unto his Lord and said: ‘My Lord, verily, my son is of my family, and surely, Thy promise is true, and Thou art the Most Just of judges.’[11:46]
He said: ‘O Noah, he is surely not of thy family; he is indeed a man of unrighteous conduct. So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge. I advise thee lest thou become one of the ignorant.’[11:47]
He said: ‘My Lord, I beg Thee to protect me from asking Thee that whereof I have no knowledge. And unless Thou forgive me and have mercy on me, I shall be among the losers.’[11:48]
It was said, ‘O Noah, descend then with peace from Us and blessings upon thee and upon peoples to be born of those with thee. And there will be other peoples whom We shall grant provision for a time, then shall a grievous punishment touch them from Us.’[11:49]
This is of the tidings of the unseen which We reveal to thee. Thou didst not know them, neither thou nor thy people, before this. So be thou patient; for the end is for the God-fearing.[11:50]


In the highlighted verse [11:41] above, the Arabic words are:

"qulnahmil fiha min kullin zojaynisnainay wa ahlaka illa man sabaqa aleyhil qolo wa man aamana....."

meaning:

We said, ‘Embark therein two of every kind, male and female, and thy family, except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe.'


The word 'kullin' (all) does not here mean ALL the animals of the earth. It only means all such animals as Noah needed. It has been similarly used in a restricted sense in other verses of the Holy Quran as well. For instance, in [27:24] which speaks of the Queen of Sheba, we read, "She has been given everything." ----- If she had possessed 'everything' in the literal sense of word, she would have had in her possession everything existing in the world and Prophet King Solomon (peace be on him) dared not have said to her ambassador, "Go back to them, for we shall surely come to them with hosts, against which they will have no power..........." [27:38]

Moreover, the Arc certainly was not big enough to carry a pair of all kind of animals found in the world. The addition of the word "two" also shows that it was meant that as few animals were to be taken as were absolutely necessary.

Regards.

Reference: Chapter 11, Holy Quran, (Translation and 5 Volume Commentary) in alislam.org

 

Id anyone is stupid enough to believe in this story, then what story would you not believe? What would cross the line? I think if you believe in this ark then you have to believe in every stroy everyone says.