Christian Anarchism

Wrong, Nope and No.

I see you two are happily gone about trying to have a 'Era Off' with no regard for niggly facts or fantasies.
Carry on.

 

fftopic:


Topic is:
Christian Anarchism

Not the greeks, muslims, or anyone's petty personal attacks.

 

Sorry shane, I feel I must repond just to this, then no more -

It is a matter of some doubt as to who is the fantasist. Perhaps one who thinks the romantic era had anything to do with c/anity?
Also, what has been said of the Romans and Greeks is factually correct.

 

that wikoped described christian anarchists well ....they mention tolstoy ......and 'the kingdom. of heaven is within ..'....there were other books he wrote like ' thoughts on the moscow census '.....but 'THE SLAVERY OF OUR TIMES ' ...BY LEO TOLSTOY....is a small but important book in anarchist history ....its almost devoid of religious stuff , but a brilliant anarchist critique of post slavery injustice in russia and the states . in the 1860s 75 million white slaves were emancipatedin russia ....but like blacks here their fate was to suffer more from their 'freedom' than their bondage ......wage slavery is worse than chattell slavery is the premis of this lil book

 

christian anarchism ?
christian anarchism ?????????

come on the two terms are mutually exclusive
if youre a christian by definition youre not an anarchist
LEO TOLSTOY, an anarchist ???
he never met anarchists that live round our neck of the woods - tolstoy was a wimp in comparison

The guy was politically nuts - his work was fiction and he is actually not really much of an anarchist - to say he was is to just be lazy about regarding what he says as truth - he called himself a christian anarchist but JESUS who is after all the LEADER of christianity would have to be followed - god who is the ruler of life would have anarchists following him - anarchism
or "A narch y " (without a leader or ruler) is therefore compromised its either one or the other "my son " god hates anarchists they dont believe in him

 

Wow, that's some ego, guy.

Who says anarchism(a socio-political theory) has anything to do with spirituality?

A person can be an anarchist (leaderless) when it comes to social/political institutions and interpersonal relationships, but still believe that there is a spiritual side to man.

You don't think a person who fights for the working class, and against social and political heirarchy, but still believes in a god is an anarchist?

Some of the most quoted and prominent anarchists were also theists, not everyone is Bakunin.

and the majority of anarchist that i know are agnostic, not atheist

But even then a lot of christian anarchist practice a more humanist/deist kind of philosophy based on the teachings of jesus(not jesus worship), not the sunday morning put on the nice outfit xtianity you might be thinking about.

And how can you pass judgement on tolstoy without even bothering to read the anarchist works he wrote?

Don't be so dogmatic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_%26_religion

You don't have to be an atheist to be an anarchist, it has been shown that faith can lead to a rejection of socio-political and economic heirarchical systems.

Some (atheists) might consider faith to be a tool of oppression, other's believe that it is the heirarchical nature of organized religion that oppresses, not belief...

 

any anarchist that prays to god either misunderstood the word "anarchist"
http://www.etymonline.com
or they are not an anarchist

 

no....the word anarchist is quite clear to me.....
I am a christian and I like the idea of christain anarchy

although i dont think it would work...people are not smart enough as a collective group to rule themselves.

Anrachy pertains to EARTHLY government and rulers....just because we have faith in something and follow a belief doesnt mean we cannot be anarchists

 

do you know what A-Narchy means?
anarkhos (from the greek language)
without a leader - without a ruler
an anarchist is one who does not
kneel to authority and leaders - you cannot be a christian without
believeing that christ - jesus is the one that is the son of god and the
prime example to christians - in other words the leader of followers
no anarchist is a follower of anyone or anything
except their own authority - their autonomous self
a believer in the leaderless concept of a human being
http://www.etymonline.com

wikipedia

which is probably why anarchists and christians are confused

 

We happen to be talking about earthly authority, whether that authority is legitimate, should be followed, etc., not heavenly authority.

The real question is not whether there is a God, or ANY authority at all-you can't be a Christian and an atheist at the same time, obviously. It's a matter of whether the authority structures (governmental or ecclesiastical) on earth deserve to be or should be followed. That's the real issue.

 

yes....I read the same thing....
I believe and follow FAITH....it is quite different that earthly authority.....
I do not believe in the institution of the Church, but I believe in my faith.

It all comes down to one person's interpretation...I think you are trying to take too much out of these definitions. Do you have faith in anything unearthly?? If you do, then this should make sense to you. If not, then there are not enought words in the world that will make you understand

 

The thing is that the christian faith is prescriptive - it seeks to define for us our ethics, and how we should live.
Hierarchical sybolism is also a major feature - 'christ the king', for instance. An anarchist can have no king - earthly or otherwise.

If you believe in a god who will, as the bible says, judge everyone, and cast those he finds displeasing into hell, then that god is an authoritarian god. If you don't believe in such a god, then you're not actually a christian.

 

i dont belive that in order to be an anarchist you must be atheist.....these are two different things....anarchy=earthly
atheism=spiritual(or lack thereof)

besides...you cant tell me what i belive and dont believe....what if I tell you that I am a Christian who doesnt believe in hell??

 

Regarding hell, etc:

(Christian)* is as (Christian)* does...it's not about a profession of creedal beliefs or a loyalty oath, contrary to what many would like you to believe.

*insert name of any faith

 

Christians will believe anything ! as long as it isnt based on logic

yes - that stars and galaxies exist and other such scientific transcendentalist theories, that is to say, logic and reason produce a transcendent spirituality which describes the world in much more beautiful and truthful terms than a frankly hilarious belief in some absurd invisible tinpot dictator of the universe. My politics stem from a belief that no god is greater than the person that created it and I cannot lie because if I tell the truth for long enough I am certain I will sooner or later be found out!
The world and humanity is much more gentle and kind without god. I am speaking from an anarchist perspective, and god really doesnt deserve us at all. Humanity is now under the spell of religion again and what a barbaric place it has become - I for one would not side with christians if they were anarchists ! As a socialist, communist, and persuaded a little by anarchism and admirer of atheist thinkers I would consider it a snub to turn my back on those noble rational monkeys and allow the thought that their logic could be over-ruled by monkeys with delusions of grandeur so apparent that they would claim all us monkeys are made by a god that drops in from time to time for a chat.
And that is to say it is all too apparent that christians are simply deluded and admire works of fiction rather than great works of logic and altruistic morality - I could never be certain if their political hunger was in the name of christianity or in the name of anarchism - and I never trust anyone who doesnt know the difference. Christianity is a competing politic -
it occasionaly sides with the extreme right wing - real anarchy never does side with the right wing - the right wing cant stomach it !

 

If you don't believe in hell, then what is there to be 'saved' from?


But on the other point - if c/anity didn't prescribe rules for the conduct of life, your separation of wordly and spiritual might have some relevance. As it is, there are definite rules prescribed for us in the bible. So if we follow those rules because they are part of our belief sysytem, we are not actually exercising freedom of thought or moral freedom.


Anyway, it isn't a choice between belief in the christian god or atheism. There are many other forms of spirituality.

 

this is a absurd.


Anarchism:

rulership in this sense can be defined as: a body that has the authority to make and the power to enforce laws within a civil, corporate, religious, academic, or other organization or group.

In other words anarchism deals with theories of social organization.
Not spiritual belief.

Christian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity


faith in this sense can be defined as: a belief, trust or confidence not based on Logic or Reason, but based on a transpersonal relationship with God, a higher power, elements of nature and/or a perception of the human race as a whole. Faith can be placed in a person, inanimate object, state of affairs, proposition or body of propositions such as a religious credo.


In other words christianity deal with spiritual belief.
Not theories of social organization.







One can be a Christian anarchist without being a) less of a christian, or b) less of an anarchist.

 

absolutely right thats what I said in post #55
christianity mixed with anarchism is abdsurd - thanks for pointing that out shane ! except that I disagree with your conclusion - it was in letters so tall I didnt see it at first but I contend that one cannot be both christian and anarchist. Christians may believe that they are anarchists but they are only fooling themselves -HA HA HA ! can imagine how fooled they would be ? Theyre already confused as it is ! LOL
the only absurdity is to say christians can be anarchists when clearly the believe in a hierarchical system as shown by their belief in the church and that some people are more spiritual than others - communist christians - who would a thunk it ?
What next? A muslim bhuddist?

 

I really don't think so. Not without living a double life anyway.

Anarchy means freedom of the individual. The individual cannot be free if she/he is bound by a set of moral rules which come from outside. A person cannot be free externally unless they are free internally.

Even the language used in the NT is suggestive of an heirarchical society - the term 'kingdom of god' for example is used repeatedly. 'Thy kingdom come...on earth...' suggests that when and if this kingdom does come, it will not be under a state of anarchy, but divine monarchy.

Also, in effect, christain prejudice has been carried over into civil law in many countries. Things like polygamy are illegal (political) because prohibited by the bible (religion).

Those who imagine they are christians and anarchists at one and the same time are deluding themselves. Maybe some are too brainwashed and fearful to just let go of an outmoded belief system.

But that's just not the case in reality is it? Look at churches - if that isn't an atempt at social organization I don't know what is.
Also once more, the christian rules on marriage are more social engineering, as is the disaproval of homosexuality, and the general idea of gender specific roles as spoken of by st.paul, what to speak of slavery.

 

Some christians believe in heirarchical governance, i never denied that.

islam and buddhism are 2 competing belief systems, one can't be both.

christianity and anarchism are not competing belief systems, one can be both, and many have been and are.