Chimp vetoes stem cell research bill

I hate bush

 

I totally agree with you, HCM....

At some point as a society, we need to learn to just accept circumstances and make the best of them. And learn to accept death.

 

See, that's all I'm getting at. There's a circle of life, and part of that process is, unfortunately, death. And while we truly are making miraculous discoveries, the fact of the matter is, we're living longer and longer, and is this really good for us? Normally I think of each birth replacing a death. However, we're exceding that above and beyond. How far will we go?

I just worry what the affect will be later on down the road, whether it's going to end up backfiring on us.

But by no means do I support Bush!

{{{Hugs}}}

 

That's easy for you to say but you probably don't have a thirty year old brother dying of Parkinson's disease....

And I don't know- going along those lines, shouldnt we then also stop giving medication to people sick with cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc?

 

Let's take this one step further. Survival of the fittest. No one gets any medicine until the population gets back down to 3 billion. But serioulsy, I'm not worried about over population and depletion of natural resources. Things always have a way of working themselves out. Even if it means a nuclear holocaust.

 

actually, the us alone among first world nations has a birth rate that exceeds 1.0

 

Lucky Stripe, you're right, I don't have a loved one suffering from Parkinson's. I'm sure that has to be awful, and I'm not trying to belittle anything that you or your family are going through whatsoever. My "rant" so-to-speak just comes from the medical issues I've often questioned.

But what I'm wondering is do they honestly want to find a cure for these things? We can't even find a cure for the common cold. The pharmacuetical and insurance companies are making loads of money off of innocent people. Elderly are having to take out second mortgages to cover medical expenses. I know, because my grandparents are one of them. The healthy guideliness for what is considered elevated blood pressure have been declining over the years, that goes for blood sugar as well. I know this because my mother is a nurse and has informed me of this trend. This means that they are medicating even more and more. And is it really necessary?

Maybe I've lost a lot of faith in the way this country is run and the true intentions behind much of the research that goes on, then again, I could be way off the mark and basing my opinions on my own personal skepticism regarding this issue. Perhaps they really do want to put an end to the diseases that are debilitating and killing so many. One would hope so.

It's one thing if they can find a cure and offer it to everyone who suffers, but in the end are they going to demand astronomical amounts of money so that only the wealthy get the benefit of good health anyway? Are the lower income going to be cured of cancer, heart disease, diabetes as well? Or will it be another method of making the gap even further between the classes?

I don't know. These are just things I think about.

I apologize for offending anyone whatsoever, I realize that this is a sensitive issue, and being that this is a board in which we discuss personal opinions, not everyone is going to agree 100% of the time.

 

on another note, with a 2/3rds majority, congress can overrule a veto. so don't just blame you're good ol' pres.

 

The us has a birth rate of 13.9 per 1000, Canada has 10.8 per 1000, the US's is still dropping. Both nations have very low birth rates, as do all industrialized nations.

 

Is that why you never get any?

 

That doesn't happen very often. Less then 10%.

 

I think some of you people should look into a career in biological warfare.

Sadistic.

 

how about this, it is only research that scientists are conducting, they aren't saving anyone yet, the least bush could have done was allow them to research it, and then keep it from the american people.

 

So...what have we learned here?

Although my diabetes could possibly be cured, sparing me the agony of blindness, loss of sensation, high blood pressure and possible amputations of my extremities in the future...we have to protect little Johnny Stem Cell. Because he's "alive".

However, your tax dollars and mine fund the deaths of innocents in Iraq. Not to mention rape, torture etc.

Anyone else feel like punching a Republican?

Yes, let's pray for the unborn. They're far more important than the rest of us. That's why Rebublicans LOVE capital punishment.

Grrr...

 

for the usa
14.14 birth rate per 1000
8.25 death rate per 1000 (crude death rate)

for canada
10.8
7.73

i was mistaken, but you're comparing a different figure than i am. i was comparing birth rate to crude death rate.

and just because your congress doesn't choose to do something doesn't make it somehow not their responsability.

 

i'm sure the majority of the US supported slavery at one point but it dosent make it any less wrong.

 

One is a baby and the other is an egg. How can you talk about an unfertilized egg like it's the same thing? If it was just taking a ladies cycle away a couple of times a year then I think there would be a long line and a thank you note.You are talking about a human verses an unused egg.

 

A baby is a infant child. A being developed enough to communicate through crying, it has eyes a mouth, a brain, and can feel pain.

An unfertilized egg is a stage of human development when it has half the gentic material it needs to develop into a person is met.

A fertilized egg begins to split into several more cells by this point and begins the process of becoming a human. By the phase of 1 week, an ebryo is split about ten times larger then it was the size of the egg.

That's still about 1mm. It couldn't survive outside a body, it has no brain, and has no feeling of pain, it has no soul, and feels no sadness when it's not born. It is not a person. It's not a baby. It's an ebryo which if it were to stay in development for months, could become a person/

At this stage in development, a human ebryo and a reptile eymbryo are identical from a visual point of view.

These embryos are excess of couples who cannot have children of their own, so they go to invitrofertilization. Usually in invitro there are serveral excess embryos for each child born.

Very few people adopt embryos so usually they had stayed in the freezer till they were no longer usable and discarded.

What this research will do, is use those excess embryos which would be discarded for medical research, which will in the minds of most researchers, yield positive results.

Research on these is legal, but Bush banned Federal funding from getting to this research, so instead of these embryos being used to save lives, they will almost certainly be discareded.

 

You should be happy. It means your money wont be wasted on research projects which werent considered worthy of private sector funding.

 

That argument holds no ground. Almost every single medical breakthrough from the US in the past 100 years has been funded publicly.

Private sectors have contributed minimally to health advancments, and the areas they have contributed to, we're ways to make profits, in procedures such as hair regrowth.

The amount of private funding a project can get is by no means a way to determine the validity of a medical experiment.