Communism exists to this day in communes all over the world which prove that communism DOES work... just because YOU say it isnt true doesnt mean it isn't... countries who have attempted at communism were ALWAYS under attack by capitalist nations, without their aggression it would be much easier to run things. Communist nations that did not threaten the rest of the world were attacked because of their choice to embrace communism... you've locked the communist ideology into paranoid-shizotypal philosophy that feels it has to defend itself at all cost... thats a result from capitalist oppression... You people always cry out about human nature, but human nature has been lost for so long... Surely capitalism does not go along with human nature any better than Communism does, if you think so you have a distorted view on commnism... and you fail to define a working government, it is not as if capitalism works at all better than communism... each philosophy has their advantages and disadvantages years and years of capitalist bullshit has got to your head, pick up a book before you discredit a philosophy of peace and equality that has been put to great use in small societies all around the world.... you simply cant say communism doesnt work when its working right now... what do communists stand for? this seems to be the question you don't know. Please, tell me... what makes these countries communist? Tell me what you disagree with about communism... the thing that makes most people call them communist is the complete control of the government, and that is a myth-- a flat-out lie which was first told not by only the capitalist nations who fear their loss of wealth, but also by Stalin... by spreading these lies you people are acting just as stalin did during his reign of terror. You think capitalism "works" and is so successful but the truth is it thrives off the backs of child labor and slave labor in third world countries throughout the world... without the free labor the corporations existant that control the government wouldnt be nearly as big and the economy wouldnt boom nearly as much... capitalism is helping america, but oppressing the world. you have to look beyond America to see where capitalism fails.
A commune is just 14 hippies who all think the same way, living in the woods and sharing everything. Try doing that in the Real World of 5 Billion People, all with totally unique needs, beliefs, and priorites, and making a success of it. It ain't gonna happen.
Don't be such a whiner. Do you think that capitalist nations have never been under attack from communists? Wouldn't it have been easier to "run things" in capitalist developing countries if savagely violent communist insurgencies hadn't been trying to overthrown them? The Warsaw pact countries and China, which together had a population of nearly 1.5 billion and covered vast swathes of the planet, were certainly big enough to survive on their own. You need some better excuses. And in what sense are communes successful - in that they don't collapse in mass starvation? No this is the standard lie. Hypothetical communism means nothing. History tells us what happens when COMMUNISTS try to create COMMUNISM. All these COMMUNISTS trying to create COMMUNISM pointed to their little red books and said "No no no, look it says right here in chapter 4 that everything is going to be perfect and utopian, trust us". Third world countries, and the citzens within those countries, trade amongst themselves at the same prices we do. Are they exploiting each other? But most importantly, this depends on the lie that developing countries stay forever poor. But they don't. To the disappointment and anger of the left, poor countries get richer, thus totally invalidating their economic doom scenarios. Those "slave laborers" in Korea from the 1950s and 1960s are now a prosperous middle class, because they and we didn't listen to you.
That doesnt have anything to do with countries that were not aggressive towards capitalism, yet the majority of the populace wanted communism in their own country... like vietnam... that were raped murdered and tortured for their economic views... Once again you fail to see the point im trying to make... capitalist aggression has caused the communist philosophy to deter itself into a group of militants who will do anything to protect themselves from capitalist aggression once again. Once again, like every other capitalist, you confuse stalinism with Marxism... Only stalin claimed that communism would be a perfect utopian society. You have failed to bring any real points/suggestions along, once again. No where in any teachings of Marx Engels Trotsky or Lenin do they ever mention a perfect utopian society. Try again. To you, what hypothetical communism truly means is nothing... becuase you would rather ignore the truth about communism than have to live with the fallacy of your own economic system, and live knowing you've been lied to by whoever tought you this complete bullshit about communism... tell me what communists tried to create communism in the USSR? Lenin. And when lenin tried to implement communism, what happened? answer me that? HE LOST POWER. STALIN WAS IMPOWERED. you cannot call the USSR a true communist state. and what about china? Today they live in a capitalist nation, there is no more we can argue about that... Theres never been a "Communist" government created by "Communists"... they were always created by dictators, which, by the way, NO WHERE in the manifesto or any teachings does it say there should be a dictator. In fact quite the opposite. the revolutions in china and korea were a reflection of stalinist brainwashing working on the masses... they got them to think that communism meant authoritarianism, and complete government control... he attached it along with some original communist teachings to make it seem true... and vuala you hav ea revolution in the making... Just like today, people back then didnt take the time to read marx engels trotsky and lenin philosophy so they accepted what was told to them (kind of like old time catholics) And like communism has already said, you do not understand the difference between socialism and communism... socialism was implemented under these countries and is meant to be the inbetween stage of capitalism and communism. And like stalin you continue to spread the LIES that stalin passed on about what communism is... what lenin stood for, what marx stood for... you claim all this BULLSHit that is nothing but a lie passed down from Capitalist Nations and Stalin to you. Oh that is such bullshit... to say that slave labor and child labor in third world countries causes economic GROWTH in those countries... COMPLETE BULLSHIT... the only people that ebnefit off it in the countries are the RULING CLASSES... Poor countries do not collectively get richer... you have no real source or argument to say that multinational corporations are GOOD for the countries economy... its complete bullshit, and it makes you look like a heartless bitch for supporting the rape and abuse that goes on in sweatshops. Anyone who knows anything a bout economics will tell you that sweatshop labor does not stimulate the economy.. I was tought this by economics teachers, maybe they never told you that though. Just another LIE to get fools to believe that capitalism can DO NO WRONG and that raping slave laborers is grand for their economy. I prupose it would be best that we live in small societies and live according to our beliefs... And just because people live in a commune, does not mean they all think the same... what kind of bullshit is that... of course they think differently... its just that there morals are the same... their ethics are on a higher level. Communism IS communalism and communalism IS a commune... there is absolutely NO difference other than the scale that is attempted.
so than Vietnam must have been Communalist, because the majority WANTED communism. Communism is supposed to work with democracy, which means a communist believes communism will be wanted by the majority so they will seek it out in a democracy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/823250.stm Well I don't know what all Vietmanese wanted during the war,but nowdays they're moving towards free markets.
As is the rest of the world. I love how these guys try to justify their ignorance by saying "real" communism never existed in the world. All these disastrous tyrranies ARE communism in PRACTICE, not in theory. And the second the oppressed get a chance, they throw off the yoke of COMMUNIST oppression and seek to better themselves through competitive capitalism and international trade. Any doubts? Compare north korea to south korea. Compare viet nam to neighboring countries like malaysia, singapore. The definiton of insanity-doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result. It's obvious-communism will always fail in practice, 100s of unwashed hippie communes notwithstanding. Most of their members lifestyle choices are subsidized through government largesse, by the way. Even those little communes can't sustain themselves. I guess if the whole world went over to it, though, it wouldn't turn into an authoritarian blood-bath, and it would all work out just fine. Sure...
Hahahaha... oh man, that is hilarious... communism in practice? Where? To me, communism is marxism, and marxism isnt existant in any "Communist" Country... prove me wrong... prove to me these countries represent marxism... quote marx, and show me where in society they follow that quote. You cant do it. Read about marx before you go claiming that it is exactly the same as stalinism, maoism, and ho chi minhs beliefs... Communism is Stateless and Democratic. Indeed, its never existed... Every supposed communist country has a dictator and a huge powerful state. This is the opposite of Communism. This lie that communism has a permanent state and dictator was spread first by Stalin. Prove me wrong. You can't. Just because you call them communist, after Stalin has warped communism into an authroitarian CAPITALIST police state, doesn't make it so... Communism hasnt existed. Define Communism, Show me what these countries have done to practice communism... you cant... because they do not follow marxism... at all. If you think these countries have ever followed Marxist beliefs... if you think these countries have even ATTEMPTED marxist beliefs... well it shows you do not know what marxism is.
It isn't so much capitalism that is bad in america....look at the small buisnesses and small buisness owners, some of the best things to ever happen in this country, and some of the best people around live their life because of capitalism, and that is good. all their profits go to them and their workers, as opposed to communism where that money would go right to the government. The problem in america is mostly the militarization of the police and the repealment of the posse communtatus act and habeas corpus, the problem is that the highest few members of the elite US government want nothing more than to destroy the sovereignty of the United States, and who don't mind even killing their own citizens to achieve their agendas. People fail to see that it doesn't matter what political system you live under, democracy, republic, fascist dictatorship, communism, socialism, etc. in any government, it is quite simple for men/woman in power to be absolutely corrupted and create a police state where thousands even millions are killed.
Communism would not have a monetary system... or a need for money... or a government... that is, if you are talking about Marxist communism. Sidenote, The american government is controlled by the most wealthy corporations. communism and socialism are not political systems... they are economic philosophies with no real government attached to them... governments only offer communism/socialism to rally support until they have enough power where they can abuse it.. they stand in a facade of communism, because that is what lie they told to gain power. but to be a communist does not mean that you agree with any sort of government... it is simply an economic philosophy... marx warned specifically against government... I completely agree with you on that.
of course not, if he were to run a country then that would mean he would have headed a government. Karl Marx did not like government.
Communes and arguably communism existed long before marx... he just wrote it down in theory... and created some other theory about constant revolution which is exactly true and realistic... Main Entry: the·o·ry Pronunciation: 'thE-&-rE, 'thi(-&)r-E Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -ries Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theOria, from theOrein 1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another 2 : abstract thought : [size=-1]SPECULATION[/size] 3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory> 4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all> 5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave theory of light> 6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : [size=-1]CONJECTURE[/size] c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
You just dont't get. All of these horrible governments are what happens when this THEORY tries to get APPLIED. I've read Kapital (what a waste of time). I see nothing therein that preculdes the existence of a totalitarian government with which to implement the theory... Because you NEED a totalitarian police state to get RATIONAL people to abide by this flawed, failed THEORY. You just think people would go along with this? Marx obviously knew little to nothing of human nature. BTW, if you want to see where marx stole his ideas, read the superior writings of Hegel. He took Hegel's ideas, misinterpreted them, distorted them, and arrived a a horribly wrong conclusion. Hegel's ideas were rooted in reality, somewhat. Marx was in fantasy-land. And if you doubt these failed countries are not marxist--look how they started out. They tried they really did, for the most part. In the beginning of the revolutions, they were marxist. I argue that they continued to be, and still are in a few cases. But even if you stipulate that they do not follow the letter of marx' "teachings" now, they did at the start. Then, human nature and reality kicked in. It sounds so good on paper, to some. But in reality, the result is always the same. Totalitarianism. It is inevitable. By following marx' "teachings", you set the stage for dictatorship and oppression. marx provides the perfect blueprint by which to set up an oppressive society. He was a poor economist and an even worse student of human nature. Engels as well. His interpretations of history and anthropology are simplistic and misinformed, and would be laughable had they not resulted in so much misery.
All marx did was rip off Hegel. some form of communism arguably did exist in the stone ages. you are correct about that. as man evolved he found a better way. marx was wrong therefore in thinking that man would evolve, for lack of a better word, to communism. as man evolves, he goes toward capitalism. The failed attempts at communism (french revolution, for example) result in horrific bloodshed, and ultimately totalitarianism (napoleon). it is inevitable.
Yes, small businesses are great. The problem is that most products you buy don't come from small businesses. They come from large corporations, and are made by children in the less fortunate areas of the world. Capitalism is not bad for America. America has it pretty sweet. It's bad for the rest of the world.
lol marxism hasnt ever been applied or even tried to been applied... stalin didnt like marx, mao didnt follow marx... all those communist countries had dictators who followed their own views, not that which was written by marx... same arguments over and over... claiming to know "human nature" LMAO. what a bunch of friggin ish.. hegel and marx are nothing alike, you just jump on the bandwagon and discredit marx... i dont think you actually read das kapital or else you wouldnt have said half the bullshit in that post. You are arguing against totalitarianism, dictatorship, police states... NOT the economic theory of marx. There is absolutely no proof these countries followed marxism... and there is no where in the way they ruled the land you couldp oint out and say "Marx suggested that" becuase its simply bullshit.. capitalists never argue marxism by bringing about quotes from marx and discrediting them... the only way they know how to argue marxism is to use the same bland arguments against dictatorship, and totalitarianism that has NOTHING to dow ith this ECONOMIC theory... Once again, proof that you cannot differentiate between an economic and political philosophy... if these countries followed marx, they wouldnt have had dictatorships, or an existing government for very long at all. You cant say marx was completely wrong, some of the ideas he wrote in Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto were right on the money... The only reason the capitalists say marxism has "failed" is because they think countries tried to implement it... WRONG... they also think its "failed" because it doesnt stimulate economic growth like capitalism does... more BS because the goal of Marxism isnt money its Political and Social rights. The way capitalists define a working economic theory is completely different than a communist would define a working economic theory... both economic theories WORK... just in different ways for different objectives.. i would think even one who takes such capitalist stalinist LIES about marx so literally could see something as obvious as that. listen to this man -- he claimed the french revolution was an attempt at communism -- what a bunch of shit man did not EVOLVE from communism to capitalism... obviously you havent read much about Evolution, because that is just fucking silly... to say tha tan economic theory "evolves" with man... LMAo! wow, it's like that came straight from mr McCarthy's mouth! countries USE and abused the GREAT philosophy written by marx to GAIN POWER because it is so obviously better than a capitalist society for the working poor... and it worked... they got power, and they abused it... that doesnt discredit marx... in fact it is more like an argument FOR marx... because marx warned against the government, warned against peoples urge to control and use others. but people back then didnt read the manifesto just like catholics didnt read the bible... they had others do it for them, they left out important things... and it led to this poice state... These countries do not discredit marx at all, they prove his theories completely that government should be avoided, because it always hurts people, and there is always someone who has more power than others... equality can never be existant in a society with a government. Typical capitalists who fear the government to the point where they would ignore the fact that Marxism is anti-government, because of the supposed countries which were built on the foundations of Marxism... Countries which were built on the foundations of Marxism... do you understand how this makes absolutely no sense? Marxism and Countries (government ) do not belong together. they are two different ideas. Just because countries like the USSR, china, korea, cuba, promised the people Marxism... doesnt mean they gave them marxism... they gave them totalitarianism, they spit in their face... once they got enuf power to lead the revolution, they had already abused their power and went against Marx. in america you see people immediately discredit marx with no actual proof... and spread such lies just as Stalin did during his reign.. Lies like saying communism causes totalitarianism, or communism is complete government control of business... or saying communism would have everyones wealth pooled into a central government... if you read and understand marx, you would see that these governments who created such tyrannical fascist police states were doing the exact opposite as Marx intended... you can laugh in the face of marx, and think his ideas were the same as Maoism, Stalin.. but at the end of the day... the ones who actually read marx are the ones laughing... 90% of the argument agAinst marx that people say today originally came from Stalin... do you understand that? Stalin tried to skew marxism and make it something its not, he spread these lies that communism means an oppressive government controlled force... stalin knew the truth about communism, that it was stateless, and that by the laws of Commnism, he should have never had power... and he tried his best to hide the truth from people... he murdered those who spread the truth... and to this day capitalists will point at Stalin and say he is a reflection of Marx... by doing that they are executing perfectly Stalins plan... the way to actually be against stalin is to show the world what his plans were at the time of the russian revolution and bring new truth and meaning to what marxism and communism really means. That which has no government, cannot possibly cause the same oppression as Fascists like Stalin have in the past. Together we can work at bringing down modern-day stalinists-capitalists lies. surely no one would think that they are supporting Stalin, but ifyou read the history of the russian revolution and stalins plans against Lenin and Trotsky you can see perfectly that this capitalist argument fits precisely into stalins plan... by ignoring the very foundation of marxism you have made it non-existant... its been skewed by years and years of lies... stalin helped, and you helped stalin... and now all thats left, are capitalist police states, psuedo commie police states... all of thesegovenments just create misery and pain... and they still lay on the back of Marx and spit on his grave... still in school such idiots will spout the Gospel of Stalin to automatically discredit Marx and give his theories no actual objective research. and now the only philosophy that tries to go against the normal Police-state government (marxism) has been lied about so many times... that peopl are actually starting to believe that marxism follows police states and suggests government... what a bunch of shit... by spreading these lies you leave Humanity with no other choice but Tyrannical Government.
