Charles Manson

I should have stated that Ranger and me are Co-Mods here. WE are both Original Hippies from Haight/Ashbury from the earily 60s to the late 70's for me and Ranger just left Haight Dst. two months ago. We were both active in many turning events and happenings in the community and lived/live the hippie lifestyle.

We are all fortunate to have Ranger here with his vast knowledge of the Haight Happenings then and now. Ranger is a wealth of imformation, and is one of the kyndest dudes I know. Ranger will also tell you like it is and you know when your with him your back is covered.

Thank you Ranger.

I would also like to say that a 'healthy debate' is welcome here, but dis-respecting other posters will not be tolerated.

 

I have a question for either Shameless Heifer or Ranger: I lived in Haight-Ashbury during The Summer of Love-- I left S.F. right after The Death Of Hippie Parade-- but that October day (the sixth, I think) in 1967, I wandered into the Parade by accident and ended up being one of the lead pallbearers of the "dead hippie" (actually some dude who pretended being "dead". I and five others carried him the whole march (ah!, I was young and strong then!) to the Panhandle where everything was set afire (not the "dead hippie of course) until the fire trucks came. A few days after that, I hitch-hiked back to N.Y.C., where I had a loft at 6 Bleecker (the same building, incidentally, where the notorious A.J.Weberman of Garbology and Dylanology fame lived one floor below me-- but that's another story). Imagine my surprise when, a few weeks later, a friend came bearing a copy of the Sunday New York Times Magazine in which was an article about "The Last Days of Haight-Ashbury" or some such rubbish. Lo and behold!-- there was a photo of me (with long hair, beard, Lennon-glasses and love beads on the left in the picture wearing a black patterened tee-shirt!)


I had a copy, but somehow over the years it disappeared (my mother probably threw it out as she did my priceless baseball cards and comics from the 50's). I went to the Reading Library and retrieved it on microfilm and made a copy, but it was of extremely poor quality. I wrote to The New York Times to no avail-- they didn't even reply.

My question is: do you know the name and address of the photographer or how I could find them? There were many photographers that day, as well as film crews from the local TV stations. Hell, it wouldn't have to be the same photographer from The N.Y. Times-- I'm sure other photographers had just as good pictures. I'd like quality enlargements to give to my children and grandchildren; I'll pay well.

If you can help me out, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

 

I thought I had answers this already, but it seems my responce dissapeared.
At any rate check out Larry Keenan's website and email him to see if he had taken the pic. Larry did a lot of photographs of that era. I found a pic he took of me on Haight Street in his site, you might be there also. Best of luck Thudly in your search.

SH

 

There has been a LOT of misinformation and speculation posted in this thread. I'm not here to argue Manson's guilt or innocence. However the man was completely shafted in the courtroom. I don't believe I've ever heard of a defendent being barred from testifying at his own trial. I really don't get why so many people act as if Manson was the devil himself. The only reason he received so much attention was because he was involved in the slaying of a famous Hollywood actress. Keep buying into the mass media's portrayal of just another man. He doesn't have powers. He isn't the devil. He's just another troubled human being, whether he's guilty or innocent. The people who commited the murders in his name did so at their own free will, and they also enjoyed it. Those of you who have the nerve to call yourselves Christians and sit here and make your holier than thou remarks about another person are nothing but hypocrites. It doesn't matter if that person is Charles Manson. Some of you need to come down off of your high horse (mods especially). You have no right to judge. I'm not even a Christian, but even I can tell you Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I see a lot of stones being casted.

 

Zero, this is a dicussion forum, where we discuss things. AS you we have the right to debate, but we (the mods) have to keep things from getting out of controll, as to say it is our 'jobs' to protect our posters from being harrassed. We take our time in the forums seriously as this is our place to connect with likeminded ones.

As for Charlie, I don't think you never met him or his band you can not say either that we are wrong in our thinking. You yourself are condemming us for our beleifs and our personal feelings about Manson and his band of murders. Who do you think taught his followers to think like they do. Charles Manson!. You my friend most likely never a hippie or engaged in the hippie lifestyle. It is YOU that is condemming us for what we think.
And who made this a religious discussion.
There were not just the Tate and La Bianca murders, there were several more. Does the president go into the battlefield and fight hand to hand combat.. no he does not. He leads men to War, as did Manson. He was their stratigic commander. Their LEADER, do you think they acted alone, does a body move without the brain telling it what to do. You can confine the body but not the brain. And you want this brain out on the street to do yet more dispicable things.

And to address Evil, when I say evil I mean the black hole of negitivity where all good and rightful thinking is disbanded and disolved. Where light can no longer be seen and your are cut off from The Infinite Source. Where hopelessness and dispare dwell, where greed and EGO reside, where truth and justice are no longer revered but the seething loathsomeness of power and corrpution consume humanity.

If you have read any of my or Rangers other posts in other forums you would be better able to JUDGE US. So who is on the High Horse. We have a right to our knowledgeble opinions but there is a difference bewteen you and ones like Ranger and me, you see, we were THERE and expierenced it, we came in contact with their hidious family.. You just read about it. It's like eating chocolate. You can read or hear about what it taste like but you will never KNOW what it taste like till you experience it's flavor.

Now. If there's not anymore judgemental remarks, I'd like to get back to my work.

sh

 

I will say my peace and leave it at that. It would be rather pointless to continue this any further. I understand perfectly well what your "job" is. I happen to be the administrator of my own forum. I understand that part of your job is to protect the posters of this forum. You also have to realize where to draw the line. If you will very carefully read over the post that Ranger reposted you will notice that both parties made "harrassing remarks". Calling someone "youngster" could be considered harrassment in the form of age descrimination if it were used at the work place. We are not at the work place though. We are on a discussion board. It should be a little more relaxed here than it is at work though. It would be great if everyone had a jolly good time all the time. Unfortunately we all happen to be flawed human beings and things don't exacly work out as planned. Sometimes people get a little carried away in the heat of the moment during a post. I know that I personally feel so passionately inside about certain things that I tend to end up writing a very long rant without even realizing it (such as this one ) sometimes. Mods tend to be the judge, jury, and executionerss in a forum. There have been a lot of very good people to leave these forums because of "trigger happy" mods who are eager to ban. I just think that it would be a better idea to send someone a PM asking them to tone it down a bit, rather than publically berating the person and threatening to ban them. That's just my take on the situation. :|

I never condemned you. It isn't my place to judge you. I merely stated that by judging and condemning another man that you were being hypocritical in comparison to statements you had previously made. That doesn't mean that I think you are a horrible person inside and deserve to burn in eternal hellfire or anything I have no doubt that Manson encouraged his followers to think as he did, but those people should also be held accountable for the murders that they carried out with their own free will. You are right about me never being a Hippie. Unfortunately I didn't get to choose what year I would be born in. You shouldn't assume anything about my "lifestyle" though. That is a different story.

As I stated above.. I never condemned you. It isn't my place to pass judement. I never intended this to be a religious discussion, nor do I perceive it that way. I see it more like a discussion about character.

I do not believe that either war or murder are justifiable. I never said that Charles Manson shouldn't be in prison. I just stated that he wasn't given a fair trial. He is an imperfect human being no matter how much you despise him. He still deserves a fair trial just like anyone else though. He was not allowed to testify at his own trial. The reason stated was that he might "persuade the jury that he was innocent" with his "powers". I thought the point of testifying at your own trial was to persuade the jury of your innocence??? That is what I mean when I say that he was shafted. Regardless of his crime and moral character he still deserved a fair trial. Again I am against war and murder. I do not believe that it is right in any case. I do not believe that Charles Manson should be walking the streets, nor that he even wants to himself.

I'm not touching that one here. That's an example of passion taking you over during a post, which I was talking about above. I like it though... very poetic

Once again I'm not trying to judge you. I just happen to be a blunt person who isn't afraid to speak his mind. I just didn't agree with you. I wasn't damning you or anything. I'm a pretty humble person, and there is no high horse to come off of. I already stated my opinion on Manson above. I never once mentioned that I supported any of the crimes that he may have commited. I believe that you you just didn't understand my intent.

and I'll get back to mine. Thank you for your time. Have a nice day.

 

When one takes on the responsiblity of Mod, they are taking responsiblity for everyone in their forum(s). Neither Ranger nor I have banned anyone, nor have we asked for banishment of anyone either.
WE are the judge, jury and hangman. That comes with the territory.
When a poster gets blasted for age color or creed, it is up to the mods to clean up the forum of the trash being strown about. We don't just delete or ban at will. We talk it over and deside what is best for the forum and the posters within.
We come here to reconnect with our people, we come with Love and a Unity that binds us together. This forum is like our living room.
When someone comes to your home and spews garbage your on your floor dont you ask them to stop, and if they do not respect you wishes in your on living room, then don't you ask them to leave.
When a person just comes to disrupt the flow and hands out insults, then it's time to go. There are other forums that cater to this kind of poster. But this is NOT one of those forums.
If you would notice, the flamer(s) was new and he/she was not alone, there were three or four of them that came to Hip Forums almost on the same day and proceeded to flame the forums. We investagated, we look up all the posts that the one in question made. If they follow a hurtful path we take note. We will let them hang themselves with their own unenlightened behavior. Then we warn them. If they persist then we delete their posts, if they still dont get it, and they contenue to flame, after careful consideration we will ban them temperarely.
What else do you want us to do. We're trying to protect you the best and only way we have.
I call it pulling WEEDS. This is The Garden and we must keep it WEED free to protect the tender plants that grow within. Otherwise the Garden would be full of WEEDS and no flowers will be able to survive in it.
I hope I'm making myself clear and not clouding the issue with the facts.

Brightest Blessings
SH

 

Now that we are totaly off subject. I'll try to bring it back around.

To All,
Have you ever met someone or a group of people that made your skin crawl and the hair stand up on the back of your neck. Like an inner bell going off inside your brain, like panic.

This is how evil makes you feel. It rubs against the grain of right thinking. It's your intuition warning you of present danger.

Manson and his 'family' made people feel like that.

 

Shameless..

You're so right here..keep this garden free of rubbish..
I can clearly see that you have passed an important..
maybe the most important part of your life in Haight Ashbury..
that's where the hippie movement was born..and someone..
who has seen and been in that environment in San Francisco..
I have GREAT respect for..you are a lady with a great L...
and that shows in your postings...
A 1001 smiles
Emiel..

 

Hey..
Concerning Manson..i would like to say this..
Manson was never a hippie in the real sense..
he misused his charismatic appeal to create a Manson family
around him..probably using LSD etc...practice of Satanism..
evil at its worst form.. totally against any hippie ideal..
he thought of himself to be Jesus Christ..and he had something
with the Beatles and Helter Skelter..the killing of Tate..
was hot news..and in my opininin gave a bad light to hippiedom..
if you want to know more about Manson's life..look at this link..
http://www.carpenoctem.tv/killers/manson.html

Emiel

 

Manson and five others got the death penalty.The death penalty was later struck down in California.The surviving "Family" members are all serving life sentences,and always will be.

He was allowed to testify outside the presence of the jury.This is not unusual when a judge wants to know whether someone's testimony has probitive value (actually addresses evidence).
There's an account of the trial here:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansonaccount.html

complete with a link to Manson's testimony.It looks to me like the judge allowed him to babble freely,essentially giving his version of a closing argument.In my opinion,he comes close to confessing a couple of times.At the end of the DA's very brief cross-examination,he challenges Manson to repeat what he has said in front of the jury.
Manson declined.
I don't think a jury listening to Charlie express his wish that he could disconnect his microphone and bash everybody's brains in with it would have changed the outcome of the trial.

 

im only 16, but the title of this thread caught my eye.
i havent read everyones replies, but i just thought id throw this out there. charles manson's myspace ----->
http://www.myspace.com/charlesmillesmanson

 

I doubt that site is really run by Charlie or anyone that is close to Charlie.
But, I have been wrong in the past...I'm only human.

 

yeah, nathan, thats what im thinking too. but i just wanted other people's input.

 

I honestly havent heard anything about him other than the first 2 pages of this forum, and this's and thats but you guys make him out to be some above god type person. All i know is what i think and what i assume. I know hes killed and from what i read on here he "has psychic powers" and is a satanist" this and that and blah blah blahhhh. People die every day. It doesnt take to much smarts to move people around where you want them without physically moving them. You dont even have to be some crazy killer. ya know give a dog a bone... Commeeee onnnn this shouldnt have gone on for 7 pages i couldnt stand to read two.

 

I never had any contacts with him or anything coz I was scared of him. lol!

 

Fear is excatly what manson used on his victoms. I have never on my vast experience ever met anyone that held power over anothers FREE WILL. You can not be spelled, the Voodo can not get you if you keep your power within.

It is when you give in to fear, that you give your free will away to it and allow it to control you. To manipulate others with drugs and brainwashing on perhaps weak minded ones, was common in cults of this kind. Seeking out the lost and lonely souls that wander the emptiness inside, hoping to belong somewhere. Following false prophats, twisted and deverse in their teachings. I don't think anyone but his followers and himeslf held manson as Christ.. pffft.. he's wishes, nor is he the anti-christ.

Manson suffered from delussions of grandure and was a rock-star-wanna be gone mad. There was no Light in the man, only vile and discusting things. He will be held accountable for his dirty deeds as we all will in our time of reconning.

As far as throwing stones. Would you not throw stones at a rabid dog coming at you or your children. Forgive thoes who have found the Light and are humbled and are truely appauld by their own behavior. Forgive those who mourn for the devestation thay have thrust upon others. Forgive those who seek forgiveness. But don't be fooled by lip service. Ahhh, they find God in the jailhouse but few holdfast when they are released.
sh

 

Man lady your weird

 

My God! ShamelessHeifer is a good sort; there are scarce few in this world.

O.K., maybe she doesn't spell so well; makes typos, yah-dah-yaddo.

I still love her, and, if she's willing, bear my last child.

Jesus! I forgot! I promised that to Angel (of The Kitchen Table). Am I drunk again?

###########$##$$$$$$*******#######


Corbett's moderator has beaten him down with a 50 ounce Louisville Slugger, chained him fast and secure to a back-yard white-oak stump and called the local police, whom are getting mighty bored with the continual affair.

ENOUGH ALREADY!

 

I have been called worse I suppose, yes and it was recently, in this thread too. lol..(but it's all right ma, I'm only sighing). I'm not offended by wierd, I have been wierd all my life, that's part of what makes me a hippie, being different and speaking my mind. What I feel inside and being able to say it without FEAR.
I fear you not young one, when your journeys have led you on as many adventures as I have been on, then you will know what I speak of and why. Untill then be happy with who I am.. I am, cuz if your lucky you'll be here someday too.
Brightest Blessing my young friend.
sh.