Cellular Memory

technically many disesases are genetic and thus inherited, also many desirable traits are inherited through genes as well.

 

Yes, that's my meaning. It isn't all disease, as you know .. you're inquiring about the other side of life .. the talented / gifted side. I think saying blessings / curses was just an easy way to sum it up.

 

knowing how to sculpt marble isn't a cellular trait though - it's done by the whole organism. so there is no reason for the cell to have this information...i don't think anything like that is passed on from generation to generation

 

It seems like one of those things where one has the concept but not the language for it. It's interesting though and makes me want to know more of what Still Kicking is getting at.

 

I know that traditional science wouldn't agree with what I am trying to say here, but what I am wondering about is where things like intuition come from. The sculpting thing was an attempt at an example.
People talk about "intuitive leaps" or "I just know it is the right way" that sort of thing, and I wondered if it was possible for some sort of information to be passed on from generation to generation that is something like a recorded history of previous generations, that can either be accessed if one knew how to do so, or where the information just "jumps" out at you at times when you are concentrating on any given issue.
I don't think I am doing a good job of explaining this very well.
We have now computer chips that can carry enormous amounts of information in a very small package. We know that automatic functions cells require to survive are passed on to the next generation. What if other information, not things that are pure survival traits, are also passed on at the cellular level, like a computer storage disk of some kind?
If I understand our makeup properly, we are basically electrical/chemical beings. I don't know if you could call us "biological computers" or not, but it seems to be how we work, if I am understanding it right.
If so, then could the material passed from generation to generation carry this other information , not just survival traits, in the genes, cells, or whatever other material is passed on from generation to generation?
I doubt any one has really studied anything like this so it is mostly pure speculation, but it was just a question that popped into my head a while ago and I look at it once in a while to see if it is possible.
I think what you guys have said already is probably about all there really is that hits close to the subject, I know I can find very little outside the normal scientific material that even touches on the subject, so I will probably never find a really satisfactory answer. I don't believe in "spiritual" type things in the normal mostly religious sense the term is used in, as in souls and the like so I have never been satisfied with an answer from that angle.
The subject is probably more whimsy than anything, just something I got curious about, if it was possible or not. Too much time day dreaming I think. LOL.

 

I guess one thing I am trying to say is, if cells can have some sort of survival trait "memories", then can they retain others as well?

Back to the sculptor. If that person, doing artwork, does it so often that it becomes second nature to him/her, then the information on how to do it would have to be imprinted somewhere in the body. The brain, is an obvious place. However, if all the cells in the body are interconnected, then would all the things this person knows be imprinted in all the cells? So then, if this person knew how to sculpt, and then had children after learning this art, pass on the imprint of that knowledge to the child, who would then have automatic insights into that art, even though he or she had never studied or practiced it?

I think this most accurately represents what I am trying to figure out. If the parents of a child pass on certain traits to their children, then why not knowledge of things they were able to do, and not just hair/eye color, etc.

 

Now this is interesting, from Bruce Lipton:
"Based upon the functional and structural features of the cell membrane, each single cell (e.g., amoeba) represents a self-powered microcomputer system. As in digital computers, the power or information handling capacity of the “cellular” computer is determined by the number of its BITs it can manage. In computers, the BITs are gate/channel complexes, in the membrane processor, the BITs are represented by receptor/effector complexes. The IMP molecules comprising the cell’s BITs have defined physical parameters and therefore can be “measured.”
From his article here:https://www.brucelipton.com/resource/article/fractal-evolution

I think this epigentics subject might indeed hold the answer. I'll have to spend more time reading.

And then this:
The cell membrane is an organic information processor. It senses the environment and converts that awareness into “information” that can influence the activity of protein pathways and control the expression of the genes. A description of the membrane’s structure and function reads as follows: (A) based upon the organization of its phospholipid molecules, the membrane is a liquid crystal; B) the regulated transport of information across the hydrophobic barrier by IMP effector proteins renders the membrane a semiconductor; and © the membrane is endowed with IMPs that function as gates (receptors) and channels. As a liquid crystal semiconductor with gates and channels, the membrane is an information processing transistor, an organic computer chip.
Each receptor-effector complex represents a biological BIT, a single unit of perception. Though this hypothesis was first formally presented in 1986 (Lipton 1986, Planetary Assoc. for Clean Energy Newsletter 5:4), the concept has since been technologically verified. Cornell and others (Nature 1997, 387:580-584), linked a membrane to a gold foil substrate. By controlling the electrolytes between the membrane and the foil, they were able to digitize the opening and closing of receptor-activated channels. The cell and a chip are homologous structures.
The cell is a carbon-based “computer chip” that reads the environment. Its “keyboard” is comprised of receptors. Environmental information is entered via its protein “keys”. The data is transduced into biological behavior by effector proteins. The IMP BITs serve as switches that regulate cell functions and gene expression. The nucleus represents a “hard disk” with DNA-coded software. Recent advances in molecular biology emphasize the read/write nature of this hard drive. From this article: https://www.brucelipton.com/resource/article/insight-cellular-consciousness

 

i think the answer to your main question is "no."

i don't think the type of information you're talking about (sculpting skills or memories) are passed on. eye color etc. IS passed on because it is determined by genes in the DNA. it's possible that some traits (let's say sculpting again) are influenced by genes, so in that manner, they are passed to offspring. but it would be a complicated set of genes that might make a person more able to sculpt marble, not a "memory imprint" like you say.

unless it IS, and we just don't understand how it all works yet...


i don't believe cells contain "survival trait memories" either. cells survive because they contain DNA, which encodes RNA and/or proteins, which have certain functions and just do what they do.
cells survive because....well....they either survive or die. well i guess all cells die eventually. but if they pass on their genetic material first...their genes live on.

it's all about natural selection, man.

if this type of stuff interests you so much, you should consider getting a formal education in biology / genetics. not trying to sound offensive, but if you had a better understanding of biology and genetics, you might be able to think about these questions in a more serious way...and start to find real, serious answers.


interesting thread. thanks.

 

I think it is highly possible, based on what I am reading so far, that the idea I put forth is valid. If cells function as biological computers as some scientists claim, then it seems it would be possible for information to be passed on from generation to generation.
Possible, but true? Time may tell, who knows? It was just a notion I found interesting and will follow as time allows.
Thanks for the thoughts, they were very enlightening.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130222083049.htm
http://www.livescience.com/7653-single-brain-cell-hold-memory.html
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/134672-harvard-cracks-dna-storage-crams-700-terabytes-of-data-into-a-single-gram

 

what i (as a scientist) am trying to say is that information IS passed on from generation to generation. in the form of DNA (which we've known for a long time), and in the form of DNA modifications (relatively new findings), and possibly in other ways.

for things like instincts and talents...they are likely to be controlled by a complex combination of genes, modifications and environmental factors. so while current science doesn't really explain how someone might "inherit" the ability to sculpt marble, current understanding DOES give us a framework to work with.

but instincts and talents don't happen on the level of the cell. a single human cell contains all the DNA and information to make a whole human...but it can't perform tasks like a human can. so i don't think the single cell has any kind of information for instincts and talents. these kinds of things happen when a whole brain is formed, and certain connections are made at certain synapses, and certain chemicals are deployed in certain areas of the brain and body. that is how stuff works as we know it, and i think these are the types of things that could really answer your questions/curiosity.

sculpting marble doesn't happen with a single cell, or even if someone is equipped with the information to do so. a complex set of muscle movements and brain signals etc. have to occur. and this doesn't come from the cell DIRECTLY, it comes from the whole organism..which is built by cells...so in a way my argument is circular.


another thing you should know to think about this clearly is that every single cell in your body has ALL of the DNA to make a human. but when cells specialize into certain cell types, they turn off some genes and turn on others. it only matters what genes are expressed (or turned on) in a cell, not what genes it contains in the DNA.
so for talents and instincts, you generally need cell specialization, which is a whole other completely fascinating area of biology.

my main point is that even the stuff we understand is pretty damned amazing. one doesn't necessarily need to come up with obscure ideas in order to be blown away by the beauty of life. but it is fun to come up with them.

 

I agree 100% that this is what we know at this time.