Catholic meltdown

It's been coming out since the inception of the church I imagine, the hugely increased amount that is has been coming out since this new pope is what we were talking about.

 

Did you know:

The majority of people abused are boys aged 15 to 17.
Pedophilia is a clinical term for an attraction to pre-pubescant children.
All Priests are men.
The men are preying on post pubescent boys.
They are not pedophiles, but predatory homosexuals who release their sexual tension in a heinous way.
The Vatican is not equating homosexuals with predators.
Marriage will not stop this. Predators will use any cover to commit these crimes.

 

If priests were allowed to have sexual relationships, then who knows if the statistics go down?

You said it yourself - they are releasing sexual tension. Of course it works both ways, it is not only males who are/ have been abused.

It's easy, the church has always been against homosexuality and this is just another way of saying being gay is a terrible thing.

 

Having been raised Catholic, that religion focuses on a lot of very negative images of God and Jesus. The religion portrays anything fun as being bad; everything is a cause to feel guilty. Catholic churches are filled with pictures and statues of stoic saints and images of Chris suffering. As a result, there are many Catholics who believe denial and pain is the only path to salvation. We were raised with lots of very negative "gloom and doom," pain and penance, suffering and denial.

Personally this is my image of Jesus.

 

"If priests were allowed..." No, unless we give our essentials away. Unless we all of a sudden say "Yeah, your queer, your here, go a ahead" then this will not go away, but then we have ceased to be Christ's Church. Marriage will not do anything either because people who do these things use marriage as a cover.

Yes, it is not only males, but the vast majority have been.

The Church is also not saying that those who abuse girls above the age of puberty are homosexuals, just the ones that did these things to the boys. It is not saying that homosexuality in and of itself is bad, but that this is not a problem of pedophiles, but of homosexual men who abuse minors.

 

The comment was that there is a relationship between homosexuality and paedophilia. Which is saying that people who are gay will commit crimes like this.

Gay priests are not allowed in many churches. Now that it has been uncovered, all of the priests who have done wrong must be gay.

 

One of my formers bosses is Catholic, and he very much fits this stereotype. He didn't even want to hear any of his employees laughing in the breakroom. Knowing him would have been enough to give me a negative image of that religion.

 

This is a sort of indirect comment to the quote above and my previous post on this topic. It regards the "un-fun" nature of the Catholic religion. A few years ago I was out of work. While the situation was resolved in short order, the interim was one of the most difficult periods of my life. I turned to several sources of support including professional counseling, friends, family - and religion. Rather than speaking with a priest who has job security for life and has no feel for the cut-throat nature of modern business, I decided to speak with the pastor at my wife's Quaker church.

Depending on the church, Quakers can be pretty non-judgmental, which is the way her church is. The pastor is pretty down to earth and a very likable guy. He gave me some exercises and readings that helped me put things in perspective; this included showing me that I really needed to do some fun things both to distract me from dwelling on the negatives and also to help me maintain a well-rounded existence. It was a good exchange. Now most Quakers are non-drinkers. As I left, I mentioned to the pastor that I was going to meet some friends for some beers. He laughed, said he wasn't a drinking man himself, but added that he knew that if Jesus walked into the bar, he was sure he would sit down and have a few with us! I thought that was such a great, humanistic way to portray Jesus versus the constant hell-fire and damnation of the Catholic church. While Catholics are "allowed" to drink, saying you're planning to pound beers with Jesus would be considered sacrilegious.

On a different note, the Catholics have this whole concept of saints. Not that I have anything against saints, but one of the practices in the church is to pray to various saints for different causes and intentions. A "good Catholic" can go through a whole list of who's the patron saint of what cause. My wife said she always prays to God - He's the real power of the Universe. The concept of saints in Catholicism is sorta like God has to have a bunch of Administrative Assistants to screen His calls. :rofl:

 

But it isn't pedophilia. There is a link between homosexuality and abusing same sex minors that are on average 16.

And not all of the priests are being labeled as homosexual. the ones who have committed actual pedophilia (of which this is the smallest group) are most likely not homosexual in that they have a disturbing psychological sexual attraction to young children. there are also some priests who have acted on girls that average around 16/17--these too are not homosexuals.

The majority though, looks to be homosexual activity.

Why don't people understand that it isn't pedophilia if the victim is well into their teen years?

 

Pt1) I do not think it would be sacrilegious, and I have heard a few sermons on how Jesus turned hundreds of litres of water into the best wine at the Wedding at Cana. i also think that your exposure to the Catholic Church has been quite limited and, yes, you can have hell-fire preachers in the Church (one priest I know of preached a hell-fire sermon at the Children's Christmas Mass) but then I've had other amazing amazing sermons that felt like I was having nails driven into my heart because of the truth that it spoke of and it felt like it was delivered to me personally. They were amazing sermons. It depends on the person preaching.

Pt2) I loved your depiction of Saints as Administrative Assistants. I've also heard a tongue in cheeck description where, St Anthony for examlpe, gets to spend eternity finding people's lost car keys (Patron for Lost Items) and St Joseph's task for eternity is to sell people's houses (apparently if you bury a statue of St Joseph in your yard your house will sell).

Also, check out lolsaints.com

 

Because while the term pedophilia is a clinical one, legal and cultural sensibilities simply state minor child, or underage.

Is there some statistical study that supports the demographics you are claiming, i. e. of reported cases what was the average age at which the abuse began or occurred?

 

So the Vatican have now looked at every single person in the world who is gay and made that conclusion yes?

I don't think that's the point. Abuse is abuse.

The Vatican has said the age of consent is 12yrs right? Now that is just ridiculous too. So the Pope condemns condoms, but sees it fit for children to have sex

 

Apparently you haven't read my posts,...

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?p=6269416#post6269416

Specifically, the part that reads as follows:

let me explain my background. I was raised Catholic, was baptized Catholic, made my First Communion, made my Confirmation, completed 12 years (grades 1-12) of education in Catholic schools, went to public schools for undergrad college and grad school, and then went back to a Catholic University to get an MBA. My first marriage was in the Catholic Church. In other words, I’ve been through the system.​

It's always good to know your audience before making such accusations.

What are your qualifications???

I love bringing this up with Baptists - they're at a complete loss to reconcile this versus their belief that it's sinful to drink. But going back to my point, where does the Bible of Catholic doctrine ever say that Jesus had a good time doing anything? I'm sure the guy cracked a few jokes, laughed, smiled, got a few buzzes, etc. He was put here to be human after all.

Perhaps that's because they spoke to your lifestyle versus just being a good sermon. I'm not going out on a limb and saying every message the Catholic church delivers is faulted, but I'd say the hierarchy of the church is out of touch with reality. I roared inside when my dad said I should seek counseling from a priest when my marriage was in the toilet. What the fuck would a priest know about male-female relationships? Oh yeah, I guess they read about it in a book during their training.

What else are they? I'm not taking away from the sacrifices many saints made, particularly the martyrs, but why should we pray to a saint rather than to God himself? As I said, they must be there to screen his calls.

Personally, I consider myself Christian, but Catholicism doesn't get it. I've done a fair share of praying and believe in its power - but I always go to the Top!

 

No.

They have looked at who is abused and by whom and have had many people state that it isn't a pedophilia issue, but a homosexual one.

These are not heterosexual men abusing pre pubescent girls (in most cases)
These are not homosexual men abusing pre pubescent boys (in most cases)
These re homosexual men abusing boys with an age that is (in the vast majority) between 15 and 17! This is not pedophilia which is a clinical condition recognized by psychologists. Using the term pedophilia serves no purpose but to stir up emotional responses.

I disagree. Using the term pedophilia to describe these actions is inaccurate and incorrect. My point is that it is not pedophilia.

Agreed. Abuse is abuse whether it is directed to a prepubescent child, or a post pubescent child. Abuse is abuse and the perpetrators should be brought to justice.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/what...cleric-is-accused-of-sexual-abuse-of-a-minor/

What on God's green Earth are you on? How did you think I meant this?

EDIT: Did some digging and found this: "There is an equal age of consent set at 12 years of age in Art. 331 (1)."

Nice way to misrepresent the facts.

The Chicago study also found that of the 2,200 priests, just one was a pedophile. Now, many people are confused about the distinction between a pedophile and a person guilty of sex with a minor. The difference is very significant. The phrase "pedophile priests" conjures up images of the worst violation of innocence, callous molesters like Father Porter who assault children 7 years old. "Pedophilia" is a psychiatric term meaning sexual interest in children below the age of puberty.

But the vast majority of clergy misconduct cases are nothing like this. The vast majority of instances involve priests who have been sexually active with a person below the age of sexual consent, often 16 or 17 years old, or even older.
http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/comm/20020303edjenk03p6.asp

 

But it doesn't stop them from trying, unfortunately. Here's some of the bullshit I've heard over the years about that story:

1. Part of the "miracle" was that the alcohol in his wine was non-intoxicating.
2. It's a translation error. It was really just grape juice.
3. The alcohol content in wine of that period was much lower than today's wine.
4. Alcohol consumption was permissible then but not now because of advances in technology, such as modern water treatment and Pasteurization.
5. Jesus was only conforming to the prevailing local culture as a part of his "being human."

When I was growing up, one of local Baptists' biggest beefs with the Catholic Church used to be the use of real wine in communion. In their view, those church members were commanded to commit a sin in that situation.

 

Sorry. I can see how my comment was misunderstood. I was meaning that you seem to have been limited to exposure to those who take a certain approach to the religion, not that you were ignorant of the religion itself.

My major point was that I could similarly say "Protestants all believe that drinking wine is a ticket to hell". While it may be true for all the Protestant I've met, and all the Protestant preachers I've heard, it is not in reality) a fact. I did not mean to come off so confrontational.

My credentials: Baptized at the Easter Vigil in 2008, and attended RCIA prior to this. Married in the Church this past September. I am currently finishing my last two exams in a BA from the University of Alberta with a major in Religious Studies (that is the academic study of religion) (and only two courses which were required to be Eastern, and only one other course not in Christianity simply because it seemed interesting) and a minor in Christian Theology (specifically Catholic Theology through St Joseph's College that is associated with the University).

My one professor, Father Keelor, said that when he pictures many of the miracles, Jesus is killing himself laughing. The disciples are so clueless, that he must have been in stitches when they didn't think there'd be enough bread to go around.

Jesus was totally buzzed, plenty of times. his opponents called him a drunk, and we all know what goes on at Seder meals (lots of good wine). You are correct in stating that the Bible doesn't say if Jesus ever laughed, but he did share completely in our humanity (he wept, felt lost and died) so he must have laughed.

Yeah, my point about the preaching wasn't necessarily that it was an important message, but that they were good oraters who didn't just say "Yup, y'all er goin ta hell when ya die if ya don't go to da confession ev'ry day".

I do agree, that if problems are caught early, counselling can have a positive effect. If you had been separated or however long (I am trying to remember back, but I do recall you were remarried, so it must have been a while) then I think it is best (on the part of those who advocate counselling) to cut their losses and try and make the best out of what has happened.

Did your annulment ever get granted, or did you just say "fuck it"?

I like to think of them more as people in a prayer group, whom you can turn to for assistance in prayer, when assistance is really needed.

That, and I love the image of all of the dead and living in Christ being united under the headship of Christ as his body. It is a really mystical and powerful image for me.

Yeah, no problem. I rarely pray to the saints for intercession with probably the exception of Mary.

 

Don't forget that Isaiah said heaven will be like a great feast where we will get drunk on God's wine (but not too drunk )

 

Thank you for your post. Whereas you do have a point of distinction to make regarding pedophile, Still you are slightly misstating the evidence of your source

Although there is a wide range of normal ages, girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10, boys at age 12. Girls usually complete puberty by ages 15–17, while boys usually complete puberty by ages 17 or 18. Any increase in height beyond these ages is uncommon. Girls attain reproductive maturity about 4 years after the first physical changes of puberty appear. In contrast, boys accelerate more slowly but continue to grow for about 6 years after the first visible pubertal changes.

You are seeming to suggest that a post beginning of puberty relationship is a mature sexual relationship. If typical female age of prepubescent is only 10, how much knee jerk sensitivity would be denied an 11,12, 13, year old.

Beyond any portrayals of deviancy or sexual orientation, the thing that allows a person to treat another inhumanly is the idea that it is not me or none of mine. It is an object outside of me, a failure to identify with the whole sensitivity of the act.

 

By the way, I noticed the other day that when the Vatican publicized for the first time their policy of having bishops report unlawful sexual activity to the authorities, they did not say how long the policy had been in effect. This omission leads me to suspect that it hasn't been in place for a very long time, and they don't want to have to publicly defend the delay. Otherwise, why not disclose the date?

 

The applicable law is the Motu Proprio "Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela" (MP SST) of 30 April 2001 together with the 1983 Code of Canon Law.

from: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/what...cleric-is-accused-of-sexual-abuse-of-a-minor/