Canadians who are you going to vote for? "Poll"

You're the perfect conservative. You should be running for office. I think you'd fit right in. Especially the selective hearing and spewing of crap....

 

Yeah, well, if every other province is paying in less than they're taking out, who's really paying the bills?

That fountain in a river was built in Shawinigan, not Calgary.

 

And you're the perfect Liberal. Devoid of common sense.

 

burden of proof falls on you.


I wanna see facts to validate what you say or otherwise it is just bullshit.

 

The Cost of Confederation

30-Year Sapping of Alberta - $165 billion calculated as excess payments — economist
This extremely important article was written by Allen Panzeri of the Edmonton Journal, and appeared in the Wednesday, July 20, 1994 edition of the Edmonton Journal on page A5.

Alberta contributed $165 billion more to Ottawa than it received over the past 30 years, says a University of Calgary economist.

That nearly matches the extra benefit Quebec has received from Ottawa from 1961 until 1991, said Bob Mansell, who has studied and charted transfer payments to and from Ottawa.

The sum, although huge, reflects the political reality of Canada: Alberta lacks effective representation at the federal level to protect its interests, he said Tuesday.

Over that period, Alberta has been the only net contributor — though its per capital income is less than in Ontario and British Columbia.

The provincial government has often raised fears of another National Energy Program. Mansell, who estimates that program accounts for $70 billion of the $165 billion in excess contributions, said those fears could be justified.

 

"Tax is theft"?

GAHHH!

In olden times she could be a red Tory and noone would have much of anything to say about her. Harper and his ilk have driven the Red Tories into oblivion; would you prefer they simply resign and have the Liberal government fall in mid-Gomery? Is there something wrong with working with Tories now???

IronGoth: Oh, come off it, this is cartoonish populism. The Liberals aren't some gaggle of cartoonish plutocrats living in presidential palaces and commuting by luxury zeppelin. My sister had a prominent Liberal cabinet minister living in the same apartment building as her while on a starting public service salary. The problems of Canadian government don't have to do with "fat cats" in "limosines," they have to do with public finance in the hundreds of millions and billions of dollars, with the funding of health care and the enforcement of the Canada health act, with foreign policy, with child-care, with the uses of a surplus and with the dangers of a deficit. Talking about how sinful politics is and how your politicians aren't really politicians and are somehow going to depoliticize politics without winning a majority is so much hot air.

I'm not blindly faithful. I don't hate Scott Brison, or Belinda Stronach, or the conservative wing of the party that is profoundly soft on the Charter lately; but neither do I fear them. The Liberal Party has never been a party of unimpeachably respectable, noble young heroes. The only party to even take a crack of that has been the NDP, which has paid its price and reaped its rewards for it. The party has mass appeal outside the left and even centre-left, and when the social conservatives were effectively purging social moderates from the Conservative Party, Stronach and Brison were a natural enough addition to the right wing of the party.

Should the Liberal Party not have a right wing? Very often, I wish that it did not. But remember who guarantees that the Liberals need their right wing, centreline appeal - the New Democrats. The one scenario where the Liberals could truly clean house and jettison the lukewarm quasi-cats would be if there weren't a huge, powerful roadblock in the way of the Liberals moving left.

Of course, this is a chicken and egg question; but the electoral math is black and white, and first past the post means that the Liberals have to fight tooth and nail on two fronts at all time in order to hold their network of seats together. The answer is electoral reform and sane cooperative politics on the left, but do we see either in the offing? Neither the Bloc nor the Conservatives would benefit from either, and we NDP, Liberals and Greens seem not to have the wits required for self-preservation.

The Liberals didn't run a terrible campaign. Their platform's fine, their printed material's fine, Martin turned in servicable debate performances, and so on. The difficulty is that the media have been telling the interesting story of the Conservative campaign rather than the boring story of the Liberal campaign.

What's more, Stephen corruption Harper's much corruption derided corruption habit corruption of making frequent corruption references to corruption seems to have borne corrupt fruit. If you repeat something often enough, it begins to have weight; thus the quite squeaky clean Martin Liberals have been tarred with a brush which was already very exagerated when applied to the Chretien liberals who they so hated. Polling suggests that people believe Harper's version of events more than Gomery and believe Martin to have been directly implicated.

Furthermore, the Liberal collapse and Conservative surge happened in response to the Goodale Income Trusts "scandal," which by all accounts appears to be a complete fiction. The only reason it got attention is the RCMP acceeded to a request by an NDP MP to investigate it, at precisely the wrong moment in the campaign. By such trifles are the fate of nations decided, it would seem.

Which isn't to blame the NDP per se; the Canadian public has unfortunately been innundated with the false message that our politicians are all corrupt and our system irredeemably crooked; this at a time of unprecedented good government. The fact is, in the absence of real, serious adversity, the media and opposition have successfully inflated utterly trivial political molehills into electoral mountains; and soon we'll all pay dearly.

 

Ontario never received equalization payments but Alberta did.

So basically the rest of Canada helped Alberta.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdngovernment/equalization.html

 

Thief - ADSCAM, SHAWINIGATE
Liar - "Hi yate dat GST hand we'll kill it!" - Liberals, pre election win.
Drug Dealer - how many kilos of coke did they find on one of his ships?

She's a traitorous cow. If she was a Liberal she should have run as one.

How many million via HDRC? ADSCAM? SHAWINIGATE? Amazing how much money Martin and Cretin have. You'd like to find out, but until they get unseated the RCMP have been told not to investigate their dealings...

And with thieves like the Liberals at the till, no wonder they've no money for health care.

They can say what they want - they have no intention of actually following through on it. We'll cancel the GST! REMEMBER THAT?

The Libs are the more interesting story I think - thievery, drug dealing, brown paper envelopes... but now we get to hear about how scary Harper is. Gimme a break.

Huh? Martin was either aware of the shenanigans, in which case he's corrupt, or he wasn't, which means you can steal BILLIONS from under his nose, meaning he's completely CLUELESS. Either way unsuitable. Off with him.

I think it more Shawinigate, AdScam, HDRC, scam corruption thieving etc.

Good government - sorry couldn't even quote that without laughing.

Martin is so desperate to hang onto power he'll stab his own in the back. It'll be fun to see him flayed and dissected the day after the election. And then arrested.

 

Ontario is VERY soon to be a "have not" province.

You can thank the Fiberals on the Provincial arena for that one. Well and the NDP. Borrowing $10 billion to give to lesbian activist wholefood street theatre was all well and good, but you can't do it yearly.

You at some point have to pay that back. Remember "Rae Days"? The unions sure did HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

 

Bob Rae is now public enemy number one in NDP circles and I think the party has done a pretty good job of reminding people that he is viewed as a traitor to the party. I do not think it has ever been voiced in such words, but being un-affiliated with the party I am afforded the luxury of not needing to play with words.

 

2 polls today said 6 point gap, SC says 16.

colour me SUSPICIOUS!

SES and Ekos both had 6 point gaps. same day. All the tory porn polls are SC.

 

So once a onetime Canada helped Alberta and now it is complaining. Canada is a nation where provinces help each other out when in need like the East helping the West during the the depression.

Health care is not free you pay through taxes. There are no such things as "Handouts." Some people pay more than others but at the end everyone wins because if the system was private you be paying double for less services.

 

IronGoth
Mostly everything you say is factless and truthless but I have no time to refute your claims.

 

Just the sheer arrogance when the Liberals put in that Gun Registry which was for absolutely no good reason other than to 'Teach Alberta and Westerners a little lesson' for not falling in line.
And of course - to maintain power with their City Dwelling Toronto base.
At the expense of Prairie people and rural people.

Forget stealing from the poor.. forget all the other elitist, arrogant crap from these people - THAT just wrenched my guts and I swear to never stop campaigning that every single MP who was behind that is gone from Parliament.
Total condescening shit-eating-grins on their faces while they did it too.
Sickening.
How do they even sleep at nights?

 

Yeah, but when you help Alberta ONCE, and then forever more RAPE it for its resources and taxes.... what's in it for them? Representation in parliament? HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR


[size=5][color=#0032b4]How Much Money Has Been Stolen From Albertans? [/color][/size][color=#0032b4]In "A Regional Analy...umbers, in millions of 1990 dollars: [/color]

[color=#0032b4]Year [/color] [color=#0032b4]Balance[/color] [color=#0032b4]Year [/color] [color=#0032b4]Balance[/color] [color=#0032b4]Year [/color] [color=#0032b4]Balance[/color] [color=#0032b4]1961[/color] [color=#0032b4]20[/color] [color=#0032b4]1971[/color] [color=#0032b4]847[/color] [color=#0032b4]1981[/color] [color=#0032b4]23,213[/color] [color=#0032b4]1962[/color] [color=#0032b4]0[/color] [color=#0032b4]1972[/color] [color=#0032b4]931[/color] [color=#0032b4]1982[/color] [color=#0032b4]16,914[/color] [color=#0032b4]1963[/color] [color=#0032b4]95[/color] [color=#0032b4]1973[/color] [color=#0032b4]1,990[/color] [color=#0032b4]1983[/color] [color=#0032b4]8,450[/color] [color=#0032b4]1964[/color] [color=#0032b4]278[/color] [color=#0032b4]1974[/color] [color=#0032b4]8,930[/color] [color=#0032b4]1984[/color] [color=#0032b4]7,145[/color] [color=#0032b4]1965[/color] [color=#0032b4]383[/color] [color=#0032b4]1975[/color] [color=#0032b4]8,363[/color] [color=#0032b4]1985[/color] [color=#0032b4]5,881[/color] [color=#0032b4]1966[/color] [color=#0032b4]516[/color] [color=#0032b4]1976[/color] [color=#0032b4]7,323[/color] [color=#0032b4]1986[/color] [color=#0032b4]2,067[/color] [color=#0032b4]1967[/color] [color=#0032b4]632[/color] [color=#0032b4]1977[/color] [color=#0032b4]7,613[/color] [color=#0032b4]1987[/color] [color=#0032b4]1,430[/color] [color=#0032b4]1968[/color] [color=#0032b4]665[/color] [color=#0032b4]1978[/color] [color=#0032b4]6,755[/color] [color=#0032b4]1988[/color] [color=#0032b4]1,629[/color] [color=#0032b4]1969[/color] [color=#0032b4]1,013[/color] [color=#0032b4]1979[/color] [color=#0032b4]11,397[/color] [color=#0032b4]1989[/color] [color=#0032b4]1,950[/color] [color=#0032b4]1970[/color] [color=#0032b4]917[/color] [color=#0032b4]1980[/color] [color=#0032b4]20,402[/color] [b][color=#0032b4]TOTAL[/color][/b] [b][color=#0032b4]147,747[/color][/b] ​

[color=#0032b4]$147.747 billion in ...165 billion in 2003 dollars (SOURCE: [/color]Bank of Canada[color=#0032b4]).[/color] [color=#0032b4]This leaves the info...formation I have been able to find: [/color]

[b][color=#0032b4]Year[/color][/b]
​

[b][color=#0032b4]Amount[/color][/b]
​

[b][color=#0032b4]2003 Dollars[/color][/b]
​

Source [color=#0032b4]1990[/color] [color=#0032b4]1991[/color] [color=#0032b4]1992[/color] [color=#0032b4]1993[/color] [color=#0032b4]1994[/color] [color=#0032b4]1995[/color] [color=#0032b4]1996[/color] [color=#0032b4]1997[/color] [color=#0032b4]5,668[/color] [color=#0032b4]5,757[/color] Alberta Finance, 2003 [color=#0032b4]1998[/color] [color=#0032b4]6,279[/color] [color=#0032b4]6,378[/color] Alberta Finance, 2003 [color=#0032b4]1999[/color] [color=#0032b4]6,130[/color] [color=#0032b4]6,227[/color] Alberta Finance, 2003 [color=#0032b4]2000 [/color] [color=#0032b4]7,190[/color] [color=#0032b4]7,303[/color] Alberta Finance, 2003 [color=#0032b4]2001[/color] [color=#0032b4]8,568[/color] [color=#0032b4]8,703[/color] Alberta Finance, 2003 [color=#0032b4]2002[/color] [color=#0032b4]9,998[/color] [color=#0032b4]10,156[/color] Alberta Finance, 2003 [color=#0032b4]2003[/color] [color=#0032b4]The conversion to 20...rillion, not billion) dollars by now.[/color]

[size=5][color=#0032b4]What Legislation is Responsible for this Theft? [/color][/size]The legislation that has been responsible for tens of billions of dollars from Alberta to Canada is the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act.

 

For doing what? For doing what NDPers do, namely treat the public treasury as something they can exploit and borrow against for touchy-feely-feelgood projects?

 

Dont get me wrong - I am FOR using Capitalism, wealth IN ORDER TO then invest in the maximum amount of Social Programs.. which IN TURN will strengthen our ability to achieve more gains and wealth and goodness.

The problem with the NDP is that they are basically there to rely on, live off of and gain FROM the more Conservative Party.
In a very real sense they COUNT on and NEED there to be fiscally conservative parties ruling, makng the money - then they come AFTER to spend it all.
Usually on highly inefficient Social programs which exist for 'the sake of being a program' in the first place.

Anyways.. the craziest shit about all this?
I never thought I would say this but you are better to vote NDP than Liberal!
Never thought Id say that.
Thats how useless and bad that Liberal Party is when I would actually say if your NOT going to vote Conservative then for crying out loud at least vote NDP.

 

I live in an eternally liberal riding in Toronto.

The Conservative representative came a knocking this past Tuesday night a few minutes before I had to leave to go lace 'em up. I didn't have much time to talk to him. I listened to him for a few minutes. He told me that the Conservatives were gaining ground in my riding and that there was no reason to be afraid of Stephen Harper, as he truly has no hidden agenda.

It was no sooner than the two words "hidden agenda" had left his mouth that I stopped him and explained that I would not be voting. Not because I'm afraid of Stephen Harper's hidden agenda, but out of fear that he may not actually have one.

I have never heard such a gasp from a politician in my life.

Conserverals and Liberatives, and here you are arguing about who is worse.

Two et deux my friends.

 

I dont agree that Conservatives and Liberals are 'just as bad' because at least one of them has demonstrated repeatedly they are bad.
The other might at least deserve to start clean and then screw up later.

At any rate, I have no respect for your opinion whatsoever on this Talkshowhost and as a matter of a fact - YOU are the real problem.
Not Voting.
Ok.. well then dont bother complaining or being flippant and dismissive .. actualy dont even open your yapper at anyone about any party because as far as Im concerned, you have disqualified yourself by your own choice.

 

I would do you the honour of typing out a reply but I don't see the use in retyping what I've already typed millions of times.

You are right. I am the problem. And I don't deserve your respect. Had I it, I would never be able to respect myself.


What say you?