Can you prove that God exists?

What I meant is this:
Why try to find a way to prove to each other the existence of a highest power, either within or outside the universe? Changing the kingdom's location does have some bearing on proving either point. If we eliminate that cause for opposition, and say God is the universe--and by that I mean the primordial cosmic stuff that was what was, before all else, in Genesis, that the substance he created the universe out of was the substance he was, and that he is literally within every speck in His creation, because he is the only ingredient. That the universe is not just space, dark matter, light, and energy, that it is also consiousness, wisdom, and love, and the creative force commonly referred to as God.

So if that becomes the point, it is then also easily provable that he exists, because no one ever denies that there is something out there commonly referred to as the universe. We know of nothing outside of that. We arguing the case of the existence of the highest god we know. Why can't they be the same thing? Is there any way to prove that they are not the same?

 

I disagree I am not just talking about humans here. The very simplest of life forms has shown an urge to reproduce, to become more complex and develop new systems with which to observe the universe around them. Lets call it 'Life-Centric' philosphy.

I don't see God as a 'Master of the Universe'. I see it only as a function of the 'living' universe. Therefore, the only place I can search for clues to the existence is in life itself. I see it at a starting place for life. Not even a magical creator of life, but more a pattern which permeates the whole universe upon which life aligns itself.

I understand Einsteins rational, but it does not disprove the existence of space without matter. It tells us that we measure space/time based on matter, so with matter removed it becomes undefinable... which makes sense becasue it is nothing. How do you define that with mathmatics? Or in other terms space is as measurable as the matter within it.

 

I am not sure what your response, or those quotes have to do with anything I was saying.

I have flipped through the book 'A breif History of Everything' and frankly it seemed a little childish to me. These are concepts I got done grappling with after my first philosphy class.

 

How can God be the universe if God created the universe? Something can't create itself. God is intelligent, whereas the universe is not intelligent.

And how can space be anything other than nothing, when it is defined as nothing. Space, like a hole, only exists as a concept. It does not physically exist any more than time.

 

Ah, but the Universe IS singular. It is a single quanta of Universe.

And before the big-bang (if) that sigularity was also a single quanta of universe.

 

I believe I can show you the reality of God.

But first you have to understand the nature of reality. You have to understand what, and who, God is.

Then you have to realize who, and what, you are.

After that, the rest is easy.

 

You are right, flipping through a book is not reading it. I did not like the question and answer format, and it seems to gloss over topics that I have a whole bookshelf dedicated to. That's all.... I am sure it is a great read for someone just getting into the philosphies of life and existence on this planet, so I in no way mean to say that it is an irrelavent work. It just spends a few pages on topics that I have read numerous books on. I think hes got the right ideas, I just don't think there is much I can gleen from the book. If I had nothing but tiem I am sure it wouldn't be a bad read.

 

sin·gu·lar·i·ty (snggy-lr-t) n.4. Astrophysics. A point in space-time at which gravitational forces cause matter to have infinite density and infinitesimal volume, and space and time to become infinitely distorted.

This assumes the observer is on the outside trying, and failing, too looking in. And that's the point.

It also ignores the possibility of an Einstien-Rosenberg bridge.

Further, it implies that your BDgod must be within the universe to interact with it.

The door to god's existence stands open- held that way by a physics book.

Niethier Atheism nor any other theism stands proven or disproven.

Only individual, well defined aspects may be discredited or credited.

There may be a god, and maybe not- there's no empirical evidence. Only allowances and opinions.

 

But how does anyone know the universe is not intelligent? It has some sort of higher organization that only the men among us that we call "genius" can even make a stab at interpreting for the rest of us! So just because we don't see something we recognize as being capable of intelligence, we deny it any at all? How arrogant and foolish men can be when they limit what they don't understand.

The same goes for assuming that the bottom line qualifier for "existence" is based on physical substance (which in reality is just the same particles going at a slower vibration, making things appear in this plane as "solid"). Just because we perceive "space" doesn't mean that there is not life/energy/matter occupying that space. As mankind, we are not the authorities of all, otherwise, why would we have NASA?

 

queenannie, I think you have given us a glimpse into the real mystery of all of this. I have always believed that the universe itself is conscious and intelligent, in ways we probably don't (and quite possibly cannot) fully understand. The more one learns about everything, about life itself, about the physical, social, intellectual and spiritual reality of all of this, the more it seems that the universe is anything but random.

It certainly is creative.

To borrow and paraphrase a pair of phrases - "Consider the lillies of the field, and the birds of the air." Consider the idea that you are an expression of the universe, that you are a point of consciouness, an intelligence, a bundle of senses and understanding that the universe has created in order to look around and appreciate itself. It is a lovely way of looking at things, yes?

Yeah! This is the good stuff. Anyone who has ever experienced love, happiness, sorrow, wonder, etc. knows that these things are at least, if not more, "real" as flesh, blood and bone and stone and water and metal and wood and . . .

I think, ideally, the material and non-material realities are really good when they are put together. A fun analogy is that of a balloon and the air that fills it. Both are different, in physical form, in function, and in meaning, when they are put together as an inflated balloon. So much more colorful and festive. In fact, it may be argued that a balloon is only a balloon when it is full of air (or water, helium, nitrous, etc.) otherwise it is just a wrinkled bit of . . . uhm . . . well . . . what are balloons made of???

And, by the way, I love NASA. They show me pretty pictures of a wondrous universe and they make me say Wow, a lot.

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Love one another . . . it is just that simple.

 

PLAAAAAT!

Gimme a break.

And how much $ do you get?

 

God Box! Ha ha ha.

 

By the way, any God sceptics here (like Gecko): are you aware of The Bible Code? The Bible Code seems to present very strong evidence of the existence of God, or at least that the writing of the entire Bible was overseen by an extremely advanced intelligence with more sophisticated computational skills than we currently have.

 

Dizzyman,

The bible says lots of things. The historical references are shrouded in religious dogma.

Psalms 38:36

"Yet he passed away, and behold, he was no more; indeed I sought him, but he could not be found."

Time to move on- that's what it says.

 

I've done lots of Hallucenogenics, and many times in ritual settings. God ain't there.

That's why they're called HALLUCINATIONS.

 

But what about the Bible Code? Have you heard of that?