Can you prove that God exists?

God- A supreme being (one only), to whom we ordinary beings owe our existence, but whose own existence depends upon nothing else. Supreme in goodness, knowledge (omniscience), and power (omnipotent).

Can anyone offer proof that God, as described above, exists?
I am not asking for someone's belief in God, I am asking for an arguement or example that proves his/her existence.

 

geckopelli,
The Good (in relation to God)- all motives, wills, acts, and commands of God are, as a matter of fact, the right things to do. It is not possible for God to do wrong things.

SvgGrdnBeauty et al,
I am not talking about faith. I have faith in the Pittsburgh Steelers winning the superbowl this year, I believe they will. However, this doesn't prove anything, except my wishful thinking.

rain_in_summer,
I don't have to prove he doesn't exist. If someone tells me that they have a twenty legged cat that flies through solid walls and can recite the Gettsyburg Address backwards in ancient greek I don't have to prove that it dosen't exist, they have to prove that it does.
Otherwise, it is proper, logical, and consitant for me to disbelieve as I have never seen, touched, or encountered a known case of these things occuring either seperately or together in one being.

MidnightMoonlight,
Telling me that you have found God is no proof nor does it exclude the neccesity of offering proof, even if you have. People are constantly relateing experiences, which they believe are genuine. So, someone could say that they have seen a ghost (a dead mother perhaps) that tells them to do this or that, and offer their experience as a logical reason for their act. Am I to believe their tale? Are all human experiences true and accurate? If one example of an inaccurate human experience has occured, can another?
Should I go looking for this dead person's ghost?
A waste of time.

 

Strawberry_Fields_Forever,

"If you were truly secure in your beliefs (whatever they may be) why on earth would you be asking us this question? It seems to me that you need to prove others wrong in order to boost your own security in your beliefs. Of course no one can prove that god exists, and consequently, no one (including you my dear friend) can prove that god doesn't exist."

Well, excuse me, Strawberry. I thought this was the philosophy forum. I had assumed that this would be an appropiate place to discuss one of the greatest philosophical issues that has ever faced mankind. One of the issues that millions of people have died for and againest for thousands of years. I am sorry I am asking people to show me just cause for the beliefs they have, the same people who would not hesitate to tell me that I am condemed to an eternal hell if I don't follow their line of thought. The same people that fight againest each other because ther God is the only true god.
Excuse my overinflated ego for asking for proof of a being, that I am told, is the all seeing, all knowing, all caring, embodyment of the love you profess.

"And if you do eventually find scientific, logical proof that the god you describe doesn't exist...so what? Why is it so vitally important to you to prove to an impoverished woman with 8 kids and nothing to live for except a faith in a supreme being that her one lifeline of support now doesn't exist?"

Excuse me again. I am not addressing myself to an impoverished women with 8 kids, I am addressing myself to logical, thinking, individuals who choose to participate in a forum dedicated to philosophy. I posted this in the general section instead of the christian or other sections so that I would not be seen to be criticizing one particular religion.
No one told you to click on my post. If you don't like it, don't read it.


"As I personally do not believe in the god you discribed, I cannot answer your cliche question. "

cli·ché also cliche (kl-sh)
n.

1. A trite or overused expression or idea: “Even while the phrase was degenerating to cliché in ordinary public use... scholars were giving it increasing attention” (Anthony Brandt).
2. A person or character whose behavior is predictable or superficial: “There is a young explorer... who turns out not to be quite the cliche expected” (John Crowley).

Excuse me again. I seem to be reading the wrong books on philosophy:

"Philosphy is the collection of fundamental intellectual questions."- Philosophical Problems and Arguments, 4th edition, Cornman, Lehrer, Pappas

Let's see, they devote 79 of 353 pages to this one cliche! In addition they offer 22 books and 4 journals for further reading on the subject. Shows what they know.
Maybe I should ask hard hitting questions like why people like the color red more than yellow. That's real philosphy!

I could go on, but I'll stop. My ego has already expanded enough for one day.

I apoligize, I'll stop asking "cliche" questions.

NightOwl1331,

I'd comment on your 1st cause thoughts, but I'd have to get into cliches like those Aquinas, Russell, and Copleston dudes used when they were running around insulting widowers who lost their pensions. (Notive how I dropped a few names to build my ego up somemore.)


P.S.
Peace and love all, groovy and far out, I apologize again if I asked any one to think. (cliche)

 

Strawberry,

Sorry if I came down on you so hard but, I fail to understand why you are engaged in a post that you don't see any value in. In addition you made some rtemarks about my character that you have no way of supporting. But, enough.

"I don't understand your reasoning for trying to prove god doesn't exist."


You misunderstand. I am asking others to prove that he/she does. I am not trying to prove anything. Millions of people believe in a supreme being. I am asking if anyone can prove this supreme being's existence. I am not offering proof that he/she does not exist, I am looking for holes in their arguments of proof.

The point is to get people to think, to think myself, and to debate the subject. In order to have a debate you must have two sides to an issue. My side is, I have observed that many people believe in a supreme being. I see no reason to believe this. Can anyone show me proof?


"Even if the whole world went athiest, there would still be war. What does it matter in whose name the war is fought for if the results are the same?"


Well, let's see...wars fought for politics, I don't know, you must tell me what you mean by politics. War fought for land. I can at least see why the war is being fought. The land has some value. It exists. It is a source of food, a sea route, trading route, minerals abound, oil is present, etc. Wars are terrible, but some do have reasons. Wars over gods are pointless.


"You also claim to be the victim of preachy christians who shove their beliefs down your throat. Well, believe it or not, there are things you can do to prevent this. First, you don't bring up the subject of religion with anyone you don't know very well, especially if you know their very religious."


Really? I never discuss religion or philosophy with anyone, not even my wife.
Except in this forum, as that is what it is for.



"I have already heard all your arguments against god, just like I've already heard all the arguments from Christians in favor of god."


No you haven't. I can post pages of arguments for and againest all sorts of religious junk.
If you choose to dismiss me so casually, so be it.


"It is nothing new to me. I do not believe in the god you discribed, nor do I feel threatened by the people who do."


Me either on both accounts. Do I have to feel threatened to debate a subject?


"I am still curious as to how our world would be a better place if people didn't believe in god."


Do you really want me to get into this? Have you ever heard of the Spanish inquisition, the holocaust, the extermination of the pagans, Templars and Cathars, the dark ages, 21st century Moslem terrorism, the Israeli conflict...shall I go on?


BTW, I never said I was an atheist, I'm not.


Sebbi,


"Saying that God only acts in the correct manner is still abit too abstract for me. When talking about correctness and incorrectness it needs to be talked about in relation to something."

[font=Verdana][size=2][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][size=2][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][size=1]I believe I said something like, If God does something it is the right thing to do. There is no need to relate it to anything. God can do no wrong. Remember I am using a set definition as to what God is and what his actions would be in relation to right and wrong. I am not debateing what right or wrong means, or if there is such a thing as right or wrong. So good is what God does, God can do no wrong.[/size][/font][/font][/size][/font][/font][/size][/font]
Happiness does not enter the equation.