CAMPBELL34 VS. LIBERTINE :The War To Settle The Score...

Aren't there any regular moderators on this board?

 

Ok, campbell34...

Let's go back past the anecdotal evidence you have presented and give me your definition of "God".

 

When you truly love someone it's forever, and the Bible states that love is patient. God knows a true heart. He can also see those who would look to Him for a quick fix. Jesus has already told us, that in this world you will have trouble. And according to you, God did not take your troubles away fast enought, so you traded Him for a joint. Believe me, their are many who are in far worse conditions then you have described, and they were faithful to God unto death. Jesus said that many would worship Him with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him. When I became a Christian my family life went into a tail spin, and so many problems mounted against me. Yet never did I think of turning my back on God, because He did not move fast enought when I snapped my fingers. Jesus was faithful to us all the way to the cross and beyond. My problems look small compared to His sacrifice. I will take His salvation and Biblical truth any day over a joint.

 

The God of the Bible exist as three persons and equals one God. Jesus Christ was one of the three persons of the God Head ,and it is through His sacrifice on the cross God has given mankind the gift of eternal life. All who become Born again in Christ, will live forever. For we have that promise from God. Salvation cannot be obtained through good deeds, or works. Salvation can only come from being Born again into Christ family.

 

But, what is "God"?

 

whoah i just saw this page only and its pretty funny to read and see its at page 12 in christianity forum hehaeheheheheh

 

Hey, it's Kerouac!

What's up, Jack?

 

Ask my mom and dad. Love does NOT last forever.

If love lasted forever, then hate would also last forever, but that doesn't does it?

And I didn't look to him for a "quick fix," I pleaded for YEARS to no avail, until the damage was done, and my emotional state was shot to all hell. I literally went to the brink of death with it, until I realized the truth.

And if God doesn't look for quick fix, then what do you think of him getting you a job? That's *damn well* a quick fix, a quicker fix than my situation ... IMO I think you're full of it with this explaination.

To top it off, I did not trade God for a joint, I traded my life for a joint, because he obviously doesn't care enough to help. Until I tried that, I LITERALLY had a knife in my stomach. I'm not figuratively speaking, I still have the scar on my body.

Yes, a few people are in worse conditions, and maybe they were faithful, but you know what ... it's just like I said already (which you either ignored or failed to take notice to), I am not blaming my suffering on God, I know that sin has caused it (whether mine or someone else's), and I have worked my whole life to purify my self of sin and immorality, but I begged a God that I truly believed in to help, and he did not.

And you know what, stop talking about this lameness "I did not turn my back on God, because He did not move fast enought when I snapped my fingers." If you call three years of begging and pleading through prayer AND deed "snapping one's fingers," then ... I could come up with a list of insults for you longer than my sister's Christmas list last year. Three years is not a snap of a finger.

And even so, God obviously CAN do things in the snap of a finger. Have you not read the story of Jeb from the Bible? He restored and even doubled over all of Jeb's former assets, in a mere instant, after he had last them all, just because Jeb pleaded and begged for forgiveness. God CAN do things in the snap of a finger, but he just procrastinated in my place for three years I guess. And procrastination is NOT a quality that should be held by a "perfect" being.

Jesus was faithful to us all, through death and beyond. Yes. But Jesus knew that there was a beyond, because God spoke to him (and he was God in a sense). I only know that I have this life, and I went literally to the brink of death. I'd say that's damn well enough to have never even gotten so much as a "hi" from God, or a shooting star. Jesus made his sacrifice knowing that he'd be saved and that heaven existed. I doubt that he'd have done the same thing if he wasn't already the most powerful being to ever have (arguably) come into existance.

 

God is the ultimate reality, He is the Creator of all things, and He exist as a Spirit being, and in glorified human form.

 

I'm sorry about your mom and dad, but true love, real true love last forever. Please don't use them as examples of true love. True love is forever. And three years or 30 years makes no difference. I never gave my life to Christ because I thought for a minute He would solve my problems. And Job lost everything, and stilled followed God. Job did not know that God would restore all that he had lost. And I was a Christian for 10 long years of heart break before I ever heard the voice of God. And if God never did one blasted thing for me, I would still love Him, because I know His Word is true. And I know He died for me. And the problem with your arguement as I have stated before, you first need to know who Jesus is, which you donot. You made the statement that Jesus was God in a sense. If you had really been a Born Again Christian, you would of understood the Jesus Christ was God in every sense, who created the entire Universe we now live in. He is not a God in a sense. You would of also realize that you could not work your whole life to purify yourself of sin and immorality. Those thoughts come from non believers. For it is Jesus Christ alone that will purify us from sin. We donot get the credit, for that credit goes to God alone. And your right, it was not the snap of a finger, it was 36 months. And I guess for you, that was God's window of opportunity. The Bible tells us to wait upon the Lord. It does not tell us to wait 36 months, I don't recall that in scripture. And I can tell you right now, that real love, last longer than 36 months.

 

If Jesus was God in every sense, then there would be no need for distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Don't contradict yourself ...

Jesus was God in the sense that he was a corporeal manifestation of God. They are NOT one in the same, although they are of the same source.

And I never claimed to be a born again Christian. (I'd never be so foolish.)

You read FAR too much into what I say ...

I never said that I achieved this. I simply said that I have worked to purify myself. I know, God existing or not, that this result is simply unattainable, but that doesn't mean that I can't still better myself in the lesser ways to make myself a better person than I used to be.

A sinner who has not learnt his lesson will make the same sin again. One must purify themselves after making a mistake, so that they learn their lesson, and do not sin again.

God chose to give us free will, right? Then he does not always "will" us to do things, he only wishes that we do them. We have SOME sense of control over our lives, and no matter how infintesimal that control is, we still have it, and we ought to use it in a good and pure way, so that we do not allow ourselves to make the same sins over again.

And I'm supposed to love a Father that I have never met? Try telling that to a child who is up for adoption. It's an absolutely delusional and misguided request.

 

RE: You know Im a panthesit thinker
the way I see it we are at one with god in that we are all his power
So in a way Im a Panthesit-monotheist

Dammit Hikky Z beat me to it.

 

Well you say the burden of proof is on me, but you are already saying that my personal accounts of Gods intervention in my life is not proof. Yet in America's legal system, personal accounts of events are the bedrock that are legal system is built on. I believe all evidence should be considered. There is not a court in America that would ever try and bar personal experiences from the legal process. Yet, here in this debate, this is what you are asking me to do. If you had an eyewitiness to a crime, do you believe the court would reject his testimony? And if you don't believe that, why are you rejecting mine?

 

So you were never a Born again Christian, and you still can't figure out why God did not answer your prayers? You will only have a relationship with God when you become Born Again. That's why Jesus states that NO ONE comes unto the Father but by Him. The Born Again experience which you say is foolish, is the very thing you need to do to have a relationship with God. And that is why Jesus said, ''that unless a man is Born Again he will not enter the Kingdom of God but the wrath of God abides on him. Jesus was not just a corporeal manifestation of God. In the Book of John it reads. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost, AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. And that is why when God said in the Old Testament let US make man in OUR image. God was speaking with the two others of the Godhead. And, I did not read to far into what you have told me, in fact what you have said, speaks volumes to me. Without Jesus Christ and the Born Again experience, there is no chance of Heaven, there is no relationship with God, there is nothing. God states that your best works are but filith rags before the Throne of God. When you become Born Again God's Spirit actually enters your body, He forgives you of all your sins. and seals you for eternity. This is a supernatural event. And SOMETIMES, it's manifestations are very powerful. God states that when a person becomes Born Again there is great rejoicing in Heaven.
Praying to God without being Born Again, is like talking on a cel phone with dead batteries.

 

Ok, go into a courtroom and declare that you were possessed by Indian spirits and they told you steal money or beat or kill someone and see if they "take that into account".

You are basically describing a bunch of experiences and claiming they are because of some "invisible, intangible entity" that you haven't even given good reason EXISTS! Which, ironically, is what this whole debate was centered on.

The burden of proof is on you to prove the existence of this "cause" of all your "blessings"--not that you have them.

 

Your arguement does not stand up to scrutiny, though.

You agree that these three are one in the sense that they are all a part of the Godhead, but yet we *require* a distinction between the three parts of the Godhead, and THEREFORE each part of the Godhead has at least one DIFFERENCE between the other two parts. In this sense, Jesus is a corporeal manifestation, whereas God and the Holy Ghost are NOT. The Holy Ghost flows throughout all things, and God remains in heaven whereas Jesus lived in human (corporeal) form on Earth.

As for the born again part, what the {omitted} is God thinking, demanding that, in order to be saved, a person must (1) trust in his unproven and even badly suggested omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence, when all of these are highly questionable, (2) believe in a Bible that has been so mistranslated that a formal study showed only 13% of the statements in the most popular version of the Bible are even accurate, and (3) he's unwilling to show the rest of us that he even exists, in a time of great skepticism regarding his existance. The least he could do is wipe us all out with a flood ... he's done it before.

These are the reasons that I WON'T be born again. If God is such a prick about these things, then I'd rather follow Satan. Not that I believe that Satan exists, either ...

 

Satan opened the door to knowledge according to the Bible. God wanted to suppress it.

With knowledge comes "good" (pleasure) and "evil" (pain).

 

Some New translations of scripture may be questionable, but we have near originals and what is called the Majority text which are thousands of older copies of the Bible from many places around the world, and those copies are in agreement. God is not unwilling to show us he existed? It is you who is unwilling to meet God even halfway. Calling God a prick I believe really goes to the heart of the matter. I believe that your obvious disrespect for God shows me what you are all about, love of God is the farthest thing from your mind. In recent years some of the most fantastic stories of the Old Testament are now being verified. Especially considering they have just located the Red Sea Crossing site, and Mt. Siniah. What these discoveries are telling us, is that even the most fantastic stories of the Bible are true, and can be believed. And as far as Satan goes I had a confrontation with two of his buddies back in 1973, and I can tell you first hand, Satanic evil does exist, and these beings that I delt with for 6 months hated Christ with passion. And the Words of Jesus are clear. Unless a man is Born Again he will not see the Kingdom of God. Many will curse them selves for all eternity when they realize the mistake they made by rejecting God's gift of love to them. Even Christ makes the statement, ''how shall they neglect so great a salvation?''

 

You forgot to mention that as a result of their evil actions, they also brought death to human kind.

 

Well first of all you would appear foolish to, if you stepped into a court of law only to try and disprove the existance of God. Yet on this fourm it is very acceptable. Personal experiences can be a powerful testimony for those with open minds to consider evidence laid before them. My claim is, that the God you say does not exist, is already working in my life in supernatural ways that I cannot deny. What I find remarkable, is how non believers right away try to block and surpress that evidence. My personal experiences will only add to the reasons why I believe God exist. Now is this going to be an open debate, or just the beginning of another cover up?