CAMPBELL34 VS. LIBERTINE :The War To Settle The Score...

Just to correct you, the word that you are looking for is "panentheist." Note the additional "en."

Pantheism describes a world with no deity or soul. Panentheism describes a world that has either/or which exists throughout the entire Universe and which the Universe is a part of.

 

ok thanks

 

No problem. =)

I used to be a panentheist myself, so I try to introduce the term whenever possible.

 

Damn, I need a drink.

 

Enjoy

 

Well Libertine, one of your first questions to me is to explain to you why I believe God exist. I have a number of stories of God working in my life which was proof to me of His existance. Yet, now you are telling me personal experience is not evidence. If personal experience can not be used as evidence, then perhaps we should open all the prisions in America and let the prisoners go free. Because most of them are there based on evidence brought forth by others personal experience, which was used as evidence.

 

JDFU thats a good point, possible TKO; reality formed by agreement between humans about perception(s).




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I must be the only person who thinks that it's funny that

1. it takes as much faith to be an athiest as to be a theist
2. the book of the particular theism that is being discussed says that you need faith
3. no one is going to be able to prove god, you could show every single prophecy as true, but that still wouldn't be a proof
4. you cannot proove a universal non-existence, you can't prove that god doesn't exist just as much as anything says you can't prove god does exist


you can debate this, argue over this, out and out flame war over this, no one's opinions are likely going to change, nothing is going to be conclusivly proven



if you can't prove anything, if the god who christians worship tells you you can't prove he exists, if you know for a certain fact that you cannot prove that god doesn't exist, then what is the point of this excercise?


some kind of dick measuring apologetics contest?

all sorts of "I'm smarter than you because, sure I can't prove anything but I can knock your theory better than you can knock mine"

my god, can't we just leave peoples beliefs to them and stop spewing our naked ignorance across open dataspace?

 

One third of me is rooting for Libertine (red trunks), another third is rooting Campbell (blue trunks) and the last third is autonomously hollering, a la Dr. Strangelove's arm, "quiet your mind man."


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When I was 6 years old I was abused in a religious school, my parents fought for years over religion. My mother hated my father, and wanted a divorce. And when my father died some years ago my mother was not even interested to be at his bedside for his last moments of life. Screaming in our home was almost an everyday event. Yet through it all, I still believed in the love of God. I never believed God failed me, I understood that we live in an evil world, it is this same evil that nailed God to a cross. People pray to God all the time, and yet few really know Him. And until you know Him, few prayers will have any merit. That's why Jesus said you must be Born again. When you personally ask Christ into your heart He will come into you. When you ask Him to forgive you of your sins He will, because He is the only one who has the authority to do so. The first time I heard Gods voice was when I was 21 years old, and a lot of water had gone under the bridge before that. I have prayed many prayers over the years, and often answers don't come just because I'm snaping my fingers. God is in control even when it appears He is not, but the Bible states that we must wait upon the Lord, not the other way around.

 

Quest,

Think of it as an exercise that strengthens the mind, that helps us see what other people think about these issues; and exercise where learning happens. I personally believe that death is an altered state of consciousness, that consciounsness is not only located in what is commonly referred to as "the body," and that much of what we read about in reference to these issues is mixed with the artifact of "noisy minds" and the results of difficulties in translating related awarenesses into verbal and written form. As farout as it may seem, there is, I believe, a lot that we can gain from this discourse. In fact, I am in training right now for a possible match with Libertine or Campbell.


Peace/Love,

David




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No, it doesn't. It takes NO faith to be an atheist, but atheism is the absence of "faith".

This may help you understand it more:
http://www.atheists.org/faqs/atheism.html#what.it.is

 

Fuznutz, you've already told Campbell the same thing, numerous times. Just sit back and let the guys have their debate.

 

The Bible states that we must wait upon the Lord, eh?

Well how long?! Until after the damage is done?! Some "all-loving" and "compassionate" God!

If God truly was omnibenevolent and omniscient, he would KNOW that I had full and complete faith in him, and he would also know that I needed his help. And if he truly did care, he'd have helped.

I waited on God as long as I could, until the damage was just too much to bear. And I mean, too much to bear. That's when I gave up hope.

Maybe you were able to bear what you endured, but I beared it and believed blindly until I saw the light. Or rather, lack thereof.

And regarding: "When you personally ask Christ into your heart He will come into you. When you ask Him to forgive you of your sins He will, because He is the only one who has the authority to do so."

What do you assume I was doing in my prayers all the time? I questioned to him in my prayers if it was something I had done, and apologized for it. I threw myself at his complete and utter mercy, and begged his forgiveness and assistance, and you know what, he did nothing.

Nothing at all.

 

That made me think a little, if we are "meant" to never sin and if we sin we're "meant" to ask for forgiveness, and on the other hand we have jesus and/or god who are supposed to "guard their sheep", then why should they not ask for forgiveness when they fail "us"?

Why haven't anyone brought that up?

 

if i may be frank,

this debate has gone all to hell.

people clearly don't understand the concept of civil DEBATE between 2 persons.



read post #1, people. this is not a public free-for-all. there's threads for that elsewhere.

 

Ha ha...indeed...it's gone.

 

HippyGirl is correct, we should tone it down; brief rooting or similar and let the debate between Campbell and Libertine evolve.





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it should be taken to pm first adn complete then posted if they dont want interuption.

 

Lets try not to yoke the contestants into debate. Let Libertine and Campbell debate and we, of course, can add our comments. Ref, JDFU, we need you to talk to the contestants in order to request that they ignore the wild crowd.





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