Bush doing a good Job

Moon you seem to be basing your views on religious dogma in this case, the bible. So is your view that gay marriage is wrong based on your own rational reasoning or have you given up thinking for yourself and decided to allow some long dead worshiper of a middle eastern sky god think for you?

And if you accept that piece of texture without question do you accept just as unthinkingly the wackier parts of the bible, like the stoning to death of people for certain crimes?

 

I'll debate with you. Read my previous post and tell me what you think.

And I'll bet you that you whipe your butt with toilet paper, or that you put your shoes on(if you wear them) one at a time. WHO CARES? You trying to connect this persons way of thinking to that of a terrorists is idiotic. Wait, Osama has hair...so do you....OMG!

I'll take it from here moon.
You think I am dumb because I have faith in something you can't see. Like the air you breath I know God is real. His pressence and miracles have been in my life for a long time, starting from the day I was supposed to be aborted. Would you like to see my views on homosexuality(thats what it is, not gay, I hate that people use a word that means happy to describe a sickness)? Hop on over to this thread: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16236 Read all of it, don't skim through, soak it all in.

Guess you believe a rock crashed into something and we sprouted from an omeba or something? Perhaps monkeys? No wait, maybe it was some magical mushroom that created us from it's spores and we should bow down to it.....don't get pissy because we believe in something you can't understand.

Do you accept that today humans still put people to death? Gas chambers? Electric chair? What's this? It can't be...Please, I really hope you bring more bite on your next post or this will get dull soon.

And yet another person that takes bits and pieces of The Bible and twists them. Read that part about the stoning...who showed up and stoped it? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

God - 1
You - 0

 

If 2 gay guys or lesbians want to get married, why do you care? Roughly 50% of the marriges in the U.S. end in failure ,so I say give the homosexuals a chance to prove themselves. I am religious, I'm Catholic for Christ's sake, my church is very opposed to gay marrige, but that does not mean I should block someone else's civil right to marry a person who happens to be someone of the same sex. It's NOT MY business. If people want to be religious, spiritual, whatever, that's fine, but we have an implied separation of church and state here in the U.S., and it should be followed as such. You cannot use your religious arguements to push legislation. Abortion, for example, I am against, for LEGAL reasons, so when I argue with someone about banning them in most cases, I use legal/scientific reasons, not religious or moral ones, becasue no one will have the exact same morals or religion.

 

Okay, I ahvent read this whole thread, but as for the people near the beginning who said the iraq war was neccessary and they supported it, I have this to say:

http://www.geocities.com/peaceland_04/pages/articles/realirag.html

Maybe this will be an eye opener. WAR DOES NOT BRING ABOUT PEACE!

 

Actually, yes I do base what I think on the Bible. Come on!! It's my beliefs. What you're saying would be like me saying "Yeah okay I'm a Christian but I can believe in Christianity on one side of my brain and just forget all about it when it comes to other issues." Sounds, dumb, right?

As far as stoning people to death for certain crimes, that was in the Old Testament. That was when we were under the law of Moses which was legalism. Ever since God sent his son to be a perfect sacrifice for our sins, we've been under grace. If you'll read John, you'll see that there was a woman who had committed adultery. The people were ready to stone her, but Jesus came and said, "Those who have never sinned, throw the first stone." And no one threw a stone. And he told her, "Now go, and sin no more."
So to answer your question, no, I don't believe in stoning people to death.

 

Yeah and if it weren't for war, those of us in the US would be under tyranny, and that's not very peaceful, do you think?? You people say you want peace, but you're so selfish about it! Peace comes with a price, as you should have read about in your high school history books. You obviously don't consider people in other countries such as Iraq who are suffering because of the government. You're just like, "Well I'm doing fine over here and we're pretty peaceful, so let's forget about everyone else as long as we have peace." So in some cases, yes. War does bring about peace. Sacrifices must be made, yes. If you love peace so much, why not share it with the rest of the world?

 

I knew you were going to come back at me with that statement. So in response, I'm telling you that Sadaam was torturing his people, which is a fact, and why? Just for power. Just for the sake of torturing them because he's an evil man. We, on the other hand, are at war (which isn't even a war anymore, really, just us helping them rebuild their city, which is Biblical, btw) to help those people. To fight for the greater good. I know we went over there because of "weapons of mass destruction," but can't you see it's more than that? Sadaam had missles in the past that could blow away thousands of people. Would you not call that mass destruction, and also a reason to believe that he has more weapons? Yeah, I'm sure he had plenty of time to get rid of all that stuff before we went over there and found nothing. I mean, they've been investigating since BEFORE Bush was even in office.

 

And they're obviously fighting for their religion. I have a voice, and I will fight for mine.
And the rest of your statement was debated beautifully by Real_American. Thanks, and your forum name really fits your personality!! (That's a big compliment)

 

My God is not dead. He is very much alive, which you will see soon enough. I pray that your heart is in the right place when that happens. I'm not trying to offend you here. I really had feelings of love and compassion when I typed that.

 

Heh dude, I gotta ask please refrain from using this holier-than-thou attitude, that you "know" with absolute certainty that your God exists and such. I do try to keep some level of courtesy in debates but few things tempt me to be irreverant and abrasive than religious people touting their absolute beliefs about everything and how those that don't share their faith are in some dark pit of damnation and ignorance. If you do wish to debate over that sorta thing, I'll do so (come Saturday, cuz my shitty Internet connection won't be working tomorrow), sometimes I find it fun, but I'd rather avoid the temptation. Speak in terms of the real world, dude.

Same sorta deal. I won't say your God's dead or alive, being agnostic I think it's foolhardy to say you absolutely "know" the existence of one. Go ahead and believe that he exists, sure, that's how faith is defined, but don't go saying you know for sure.

 

So true Balbus. And I believe most RATIONAL thinkers of our time, believe this way. Our world is being ripped apart because of one thing....Religion. Whether it is Al Qaeda attacking us on our soil, the U.S. attacking Iraq on their soil, Israel and the Palestinians slaughtering each other, Saddam gassing the Kurds -- it is all because of RELIGION.

The future of our world will rely on the rational/progressive thinkers to rise above the religious dogma and see the world in a new light and work towards building governments that are inclusive/tolerant/equal rights for all. Which scares the pants off the fundamentalist Christian-right AND the Muslim extremists.

 

But I DO know for sure. So I will continue. We are not trying to be "holier than thou," either. Just because we share our views doesn't mean we think we're better. Every time a Christian says anything about being a Christian (on these forums or in real life) it seems he/she is attacked for it. If I thought like you, I'd gather that non-Christians who get mad at Christians for *heaven forbid* talking about their beliefs -- they think they are better.

 

Which The Bible, by the way, speaks of these things happening in the world (the end particularly). That's why I'm not against the war. Everything that's happening is in God's hands anyway, not mine, not any man's.

 

Until you know some one very close to you, say an immediate family member, it would be difficult for most people to empathize with gay people and their desire to marry. I find those that are opposed to gay marriage, most often have rarely even interacted with a gay person. Having "gay" friends doesn't mean anything either.

Having a gay sister has caused me to change from being "tolerant" of the gay lifestyle to being totally "accepting." There is a big difference between the two. My children accept her and her partner, enjoy their visits to our home and understand that sometimes two women, or two men, choose to love each other.

I would like to see her get married, to have the same rights I do as a married woman, to be accepted in society, not just "tolerated." A marriage between my sister and her partner would not take away from MY life or MY marriage. If anything, it would add to society in the way of a bonded, loving relationship being recognized by others. She would benefit from the more than 1,100 additional "rights" that married people have over single people.

It saddens me that there are so many God fearing people in this country that talk of God's love, but only show it to a select few. I guess homo's, faggots, lesbos and whatever else choice words you all have for this group of people, arent' included in your little world of unconditional love and acceptance. You are hypocrites. You do not practice any form of the teachings of Christ. You really sicken me. So much hate inside, and no love for mankind.

 

I'm sorry, but you've got me all wrong. I post things about my religion out of love, not hate. I have found a peace in my soul that I wish everyone could feel. Of course I know that not everyone believes this way, and not everyone will choose to believe. But you can love a sinner and hate the sin. How do you think God loves us? We're all sinners. And I am no better than ANYONE else. Gays, murderers, theifs... sin is all the same in God's eyes, and we all sin (me included, I don't think I'm perfect or better than anyone by any means). I hope you have a better understanding of who I am and what Christians are really all about. I think it's great that you love your sister the same. If my brother was homosexual, I wouldn't disown him or anything. I'd still love him just the same, too, even if I didn't agree with his lifestyle.

 

I'm just curious, and I know this is off subject, but why do you call yourself LuciferSam? God created Lucifer as an angel. Lucifer doesn't exist anymore... man made him satan. And since you don't seem to believe God exists anyway, then how do you think that Lucifer got here? That name comes from the Bible, a name that God himself made up. So since you don't believe, I'm just curious why you felt compelled to choose that as your forum name?

 

Moonjava, you really need to be in the Religion/Philosophy forum and stop preaching about your Christian beliefs in the political forums. Ever hear the term "thread killer?" This thread has died a painful death. Adios!

 

My religion has everything to do with my political views. That is why I say these things in the political forum... But anyhow, I see why you would say that. But I'm sorry, it probably wont stop me from talking about my religion when I'm posting on the political forum (which is almost never except for the past couple of days, btw). My religion is too much a part of my political views for me not to include it into almost every aspect.

 

Talk about being selfish....You don't care that innocent Iraqis and American soldiers have died for this very inappropriate war? Yeah, who cares, as long as it's not on our soil. That's a sickening attitude. Start a war to bring about peace? That's one of the most ridiculous ideas I've heard. Are you willing to join the army and make that sacrifice? If not, I think you should exercise your right to remain silent.

You obviously know nothing about our history with Saddam, we supplied him weapons, hired him as a hitman, we let down the Iraqis due to our ties with the House of Saud. Money was more of a concern to the U.S. than finishing the Gulf war, but now they feign concern for the plight of Iraqis and start a war because of it (or the WMD that were never found!)?

Saddam is EVIL right? So how do you feel about a government that supported him since 1959 deciding what/who is good or evil? You're tremendously gullible and naive. You've been duped and your religion has only worsened this sad fact.

You can give no legitimate reasons for the empirical aims of the Bush administration.
Because the Bible says so is a terrible reason for anything.

 

You missed the point completely. I see the connection very clearly, it was an excellent comparison.

I have to say your views are a "sickness".

Hate to get off topic but.......
OMG! Are there still people that deny evolution? Yikes. It's apparent that you don't undestand something as obvious and indisputable as evolution. Pick up a book other than the Bible. Hurry up, you're waaay behind.