And the more he does it, the more it's reinforced. Now, it's possible that I really have had "bad acid': at least twice, on totally unrelated acid (with and without taste, once on a mildly dosed sugar cube for my very first time, and at least once with paper, I have experienced severe cold-like symptoms, especially the first time: high fever, swollen sore throat, swollen achy joints and muscles, basically like the flu. But it's always also lasted a while, and I am around a lot of people and often get sick (for instance, I have some of those symptoms at this very moment, my throat really hurts), so I can't just blame the acid. But it's POSSIBLE, I think, that I was having an immune reaction because of toxic chemical impurities. And I do know others who had no problems with those same batches, but I have auto-immune issues and it's possible that I'm more sensitive to whatever could have been there. But, it wasen't a bad chest-pained trip, it was being hit with a severe cold as the day progressed, which is how it often happens anyway, and being on drugs (happens with pot too) will make you realize how sick you are.
well i'd say that jaw tension is a sign of lsd with impurities. while it's hard to explain why the two trips varied like that, how do you know that the noted observation wasn't just something that you manifested with your mind. lol... i'd be willing to wager that on a case study of 10 trips of those microdots you could observe notable bodyload on several. did they taste bitter? were you tripping frequently in or around the first trip? frequent tripping seems to be not so easy on the nervous system, and lead to increased bodyload. it's not acid reflux that i was experiencing, and i really don't know anything about psychosomatic stress or what it can cause. http://www.doitnow.org/pages/115.html i've found a few sources supporting that LSD use causes an overload of the CNS, affects the CNS, etc. this is where it hurts in my chest during these experiences. it feels like a jolt going through my nerve. it only happens during some experiences, and only from LSD that has a very specific metallic taste. it seems to be exacerbated by frequent use, and also exacerbated by impure LSD. i'm sorry if i'm seeming to not have my story straight here but even if it happens 1/2 the time that is still enough for me to ward people off LSD with a taste. so i would say that it is exacerbated by 2 factors. 1) frequent use. 2) impure LSD. the main point I am making is that if you had a bunch of 100% pure LSD-25 it would be a hell of a lot easier on your body than 50% pure LSD-25. this post on erowid is highly relavent. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_info8.shtml ^^^ i honestly didn't even know that this article existed until i started poking around on erowid. i've had my share of real good LSD, and i've also had my share of bad LSD. i was lucky enough to score some fire L for some of my first trips. i probably wouldn't have known that the LSD i was getting was bad LSD until i got some real pure LSD-25. i havn't tripped on LSD in over like a year and a half now, so i'm pretty rusty. but i can still tell the difference. this is important because i believe that we have a responsibility to uphold the truth. joe schmoe can't just be coming in here and getting the wrong information.
What you quoted about people just knowing it's pure, and attributing that knowledge to experience.... no, that's called being on drugs, and having delusions of grandeur. I think his point was exactly that, the variability of LSD and the fact that it can cause unpleasant physical sensations, just like unpleasant mental ones. And one is often caused by the other, too, further unraveling things. And yes, LSD stimulates the CNS, what ELSE would it do?
I haven't read thru all this, been away. But it's better than the average lsd impurity discussion. We all might throw around all sorts of theories, but in the end it's just conjecture. The lsd experience is so varied and individual that without seriously lengthy scientific journaling, there's no way of knowing. Make a list. Start with set/setting. Add individual health. Recent diet. Mental health. Spiritual health. Weather. Altitude. Hydration. Biorhythm. The list is endless. Without strict double blind experiments controlling for all those variables, with meticulous record keeping, there's no way of knowing. One reason I fast before dropping. That too. Except the jaw tension part. Thanks for that link Desos. Hadn't seen that one. I'll have to revisit it but I'm just a little dismissive of some of it simply because great flowery speech, while persuasive, hides little details like this... He then goes on to list several things that are active in sub milligram doses. But then further says... Kind of contradictory if I read correctly. Another statement that came across as opinion disguised as fact... The article on Erowid http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article2.shtml states that several people that had the rare opportunity to sample the real Sandoz stuff, couldn't really differentiate between it and 'street' acid. It's all so interesting, but in the end we'll all just go round and round about it until/when/if proper lsd research is allowed once again.
None of the stuff you linked from erowid says anything about a connection between body load and taste. Nobody is arguing that body load doesn't happen while on LSD sometimes, only that the factors which cause body load are not necessarily dependent at all on the purity of the LSD. The point that everyone here is making is that to scientifically conclude that one thing is caused by another you must prove much more than a correlation between the two. You seem to have determined that every time you take acid that has a taste, you have body load. The key word is you. Even though you may be able to recreate the experiment with the same results every time, no one else can, and many people may be able to recreate it with exactly the opposite results every time. An experiment is invalid if it can't be recreated reliably, so the conclusion drawn from that experiment can't be considered empirical fact.
^^^ Zactly Elsd. What is 'body load' anyway? We all know kinda what it is, for ourselves. How we experience it. So first, break that down into a subjective and quantifiable measurement. Then, control for all the thousands of variables, and maybe one could get a glimpse of the true nature of taste=bodyload. Maybe. Unlikely.
LSD is active in the microgram range, but even then only a fraction of a percent of the amount taken crosses the blood-brain barrier, and only for a few minutes. these few molecules of LSD crossing the blood-brain barrier are likely what causes a 12 hour lsd trip. imagine if you could inject that shit straight into your brain. you would seriously only need, just a few LSD molecules. i think we should brainstorm ideas on how to get this shit legal. marijuana is becoming legal, why can't LSD?
ok then so i don't have any evidence supporting my claim about LSD with a taste creating body load besides my own subjective experiences. also i did explain criteria for the type of bodyload i was experiencing i think. but i still think that lsd purity is an important topic. the first article still warns against LSD that has a taste or color implying that this might be an indication of impurities, supporting that LSD is tasteless, colorless, and odorless. then the accounts in the second article support that LSD is LSD, while some of the particpants did actually make mention of some of the phenomena that I am talking about. unfortunately, they didn't say anything about taste. here are some more articles. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article1.shtml so i guess we can't draw any conclusive evidence either way until LSD is legalised, and by then we'll be making it 100% pure. though, i still think i'm going to stay away from LSD that has a taste. i really hope, that maybe we can make an effort to increase awareness about this subject. also i hope that people can start cracking down on individuals that are selling off bunk or impure LSD to help increase the purity of LSD that is on the streets today. because i know i will. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml i think it's great that underground chemists can produce this stuff. but until it is legalised, they are never going to have the capacities that they need. .....
I don't deny that acid with a strong taste is probably contaminated, and that contaminants could have a bad effect.... you're right, it sounds like a good idea to steer clear of strong tasting stuff. But I still don't think that taste inherently means something bad about it, etc.
In my 30+ years/200+ trips of experience almost every single one that claimed to be LSD followed textbook symptoms of onset, duration, etc., including somatic effects or body load. LSD does indeed have noticeable physiological side effects, but they are different dependent on dose. effects that are dose independent are slight rise in Blood pressure and heart rate, muscular tension, jaw clenching grins, a slight queasiness. At lower doses; ~25-150ugs, you get a real jolt of energy that many thought was due to adulteration with amphetamine, but it is just a normal effect of LSD. Being Slightly uncoordinated is also noticeable and fine motor skills begin to really fade. At higher doses; 175ugs and up you start with all the above effects, but once you reach a certain level muscular coordination is all but gone. On a good high dose trip, the couchlock from LSD blows away any Indica out there LOL. Anyway my thought is that before you start spitting stuff out, make sure you know what LSD's "body load" is because it certainly has one, and also bear in mind that those physical effects are also dose dependant. With all the doses I've had, in all forms, mostly liquid and blotter, there was only one that stands out as for sure NOT lsd. It was on graph paper, the kind you use for geometry class or some shit, big 1" yellowish greasy looking spots. It had a sort of bitter taste but was very colorful visually, tons of rainbows from any light source, ect. BUT it was also 12 hours of fucking hell! Worst spinal shivers and spasms ever in my life, fluctuating body temp, dull headache, dehydrated feeling, bizarre thoughts and the whole time I couldn't really even function because I couldn't see shit for all the damn colors and distortions! Not fun. But this was back in like '79 so I have know idea what it could have been. Any thoughts anyone? Another one that stands out from about the same time but was really nice were these hits of what was called "T" a friend got in Boston. They looked like triple sized purple microdots and we would crush them and snort them and it would hit in minutes. It felt like a blend of the cleanest PCP available and LSD. Very nice actually, although I did snort two, took two crosstop whites (you old farts know what they are), and then took two hits from a joint, Yes came onstage, started playing............ and that's all I remember that night until about 3 AM when I was at an old girlfriends house. Don't remember the show or how I got home, but I know I had a good time. Any ideas on what chemical/s that could have been?
i think i very well may have manifested it with my mind. i think it's more likely that A) i was smiling A LOT and B) LSD itself (even pure) has side effects. i think the warnings about discolored doses or doses with taste are trying to say it may not be LSD, not that it is impure LSD
we are in a period of LSD prohibition in this country. while it's hard to imagine for those of us that were born after LSD was made illegal, it's not that far fetched that it could be made legal again. it's actually extremely unconstitutional that LSD is illegal. alcohol was once illegal in this country. there can't be any real progress made apart from government.
The first clinical/legal research in decades recently happened in Switzerland. Might not happen in my lifetime, but it may just happen someday. As for noticeable, strong taste, my suspicion would be that it's not a sign of impure lsd, rather something that is not lsd at all. STP is a very good guess. DOM would have a longer duration, no?
yeah I kinda suspected something like that, but the duration was on par with LSD. so I'm My friend who bought 100 of those (only $140) took like 5 one night and then I didn't hear anything from him for a while until I found out that he checked himself into a psych ward after spending 36+ hours in a motel room alone taking those hits and snorting meth. 9 months later he got out. He still ain't completely right 30 years later, but he started out a little off center anyway.
STP is another name for DOM, voyage. DOx chemicals are supposed to have longer durations, but i've read (Roorshack) that at lower or more "normal" doses, the meat of the trip is similar to LSD. i dunno really
yeah, well I'm not too concerned considering it was decades ago and I threw out the other 3 hits I had of that stuff.
Pork got it. STP=DOM. The duration is wildly variable just like most psychedelics. I think 12 hours is around the normal low range.
