Burn your own flag?

You're ungrateful to people who have sacrificed their money, time, and lives so that you can enjoy the benefits. Either you're ungrateful, ignorant, or just plain stupid.

 

I feel sad for the people who are so quick to spurn their country because so few people's actions.

To think George Bush, or any politician(past or present) represents America is the height of folly.

Our Flag represents freedom, quality, liberty, justice. Why on Gods name would you EVER burn something that represents that? Burn images of George Bush at will. But burn something that represents all that is good in the world? Quite sad and ignorant.

 

I went to school with a girl from thunderbay who said that . She was kinda weird.

It is always nice to see people being proud of who they are.

Well it was made the state tree in 1949. But, like you said, the connection between the maple tree and vermont is far older. It is probably impossible to tell which is first. I tried looking it up one time and i saw that the Canadian reference goes back to like 1707. I couldnt find any reference for vermont that goes back nearly as far. So i'm sure we're probably the ones who "borrowed' it .

And thats what we say about you guys. Canadians are almost vermonters...

 

Dude, OPEN YOUR FUCKIN EYES, do not EVER throw money out there when trying to make a point like that; I don't care how much money any rich american has sacrified, because money means jack shit in the grand scheme of things. Anybody who thinks otherwise is blinded by illusion. I'll never respect this country, I realized America was a lie several years ago. Wtf should he be grateful for? How can you defend a stolen land, a land where the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer? A nation that brainwashes every baby into having over-sized egos and thinking money is the most important thing in life, and that if you're not rich, your life is shit. America is a filthy fucking stain. I am not proud at all to be American, I hang my head in shame. What has America done for you that you appreciate so much that you will call ignorance on someone else? Tell me what he's ignorant of? Blind nationalism? I sure do feel bad for the brainwashed people who chose to fight for oil, but I feel even worse for the poor kids who had no other choice but to join the armed forces TO FIGHT FOR THE RICH BECAUSE THEY ARE SO POOR THEY CANNOT LIVE ANY OTHER WAY BUT TO SIGN THEIR LIVES OVER TO GREEDY FAT RICH POLITICIANS. Do you see at all what's going on here?

BTW I'm over here enjoying the 'benefits' of working full time, struggling to make bills, paying taxes out to crooked cops who file the wrong charges against me in courts and steal thousands from me, dealing with the stadium-occupying egos of fellow americans, getting robbed by junkies whose role model is fitty cent and his ghey-unit, and the best part of all is turning on the news so that I can listen to the fear-mongers and right-wingers being dipshits. Anybody else care to offer some 'benefits' of living in America?


Free speech, ie, the fact that I can say this type of shit is probably the only thing I value about America.

 

First off the flag represents the country not its ideals. At best The red repersents either Blood or Britian white repersents Courage or Seperation. and the 13 stripes repesent 13 original colonies and the stars represents the state. Okay so far the flag reprsents Blood and Courage sounds alot like war

If you want to use that same reasoning then wouldn't burning a image of Bush who is the reprsentive of this "great country" be the same thing?

Not sad or igorant just a diffrence of oppionn.

For me personaly the flag dosen't mean anything to me its a flag...Would I burn it? Yes if I had a reason too I would. Am I gonna go burn it because I'm mad at Bush for stupid things? Naw I don't have that much money. Besides I'm from Texas and It used to be its own country

 

I disagree that the flag does not represent the ideals. I dont in anyway think the flag has to do with the government of the US.

Now, i'd agree that the flag = America

However, i wouldnt agree that America = George Bush/US government.


BTW, when the flag was adopted, the colors were NOT given any specific meaning. The colors of the SEAL were. They hardly sound bad either.

http://www.usflag.org/colors.html

"Sentimental writers and orators sometimes ascribe meanings to the colors in the flag. The practice is erroneous, as are statements on this subject attributed to George Washington and other founders of the country.

From the book "Our Flag" published in 1989 by the House of Representatives...

"On July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing a committee to devise a seal for the United States of America. This mission, designed to reflect the Founding Fathers' beliefs, values, and sovereignty of the new Nation, did not become a reality until June 20, 1782. In heraldic devices, such as seals, each element has a specific meaning. Even colors have specific meanings. The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for The Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice." ​

Nope

We can disagree on this then.

so was vermont, and i'm sure others. States 'joined' the uinion. They were republics before.

 

Burn a flag? Sure I would. It's a piece of fabric with a design on it. So what?

 

you'd think hippies would be against wanton destruction. Think of the environment when you burn the flag!

think of the environment, please!

 

Just goes to show that the flag is nothing but a logo

 

Never said I was a hippie and yes think of the environment when you wave that good ole American flag! The same country that wants to tap into Alaska, the same country that tested warheads in the desert,the same country that wears furs, and the same country that could feed 3billion people with just the soy beans and grains that they give the cows that WE eat...Yes yes PLEASE! think of the environment!

 

In my heart of hearts, I honestly beleive if you're trying to get a mesage across of real sunsbstance and u beleive in it whole-heartedly for the greater good, and burning ur flag was actually relevant and not wanton or just a stunt, then yes. One of protesting's organic elements is persuasion. Another is passion. If u have enough passion to enact persuasion for w/e the cause may be, than you do what u have to do to get ppl to see ur side, or at least listen to it, and sometimes u have to punctuate ur point in an extreme way (if u see this that way). To have the balls the government does not (they'll act like cowards instead and gas u) to stand up for what u beleive should be and if u beleive that buring ur flag will help get it thru ppl's thick head's than act on it. I miss the old organic ways of protesting, due to fire from the heart, and not from ppl with a still small politically-correct voice in the back of their minds telling them, 'beware, u better not cross the line, the line that we've set- u can fight for ur right but not fight with all ur might, mind and soul..' (Not honing in on anyone here though..) And at the very least, a flag is a SYMBOL for what was created. Burning a symbol to create anew does not signify destruction, it may as well be for revision. If ppl around are offended and hurt in the environment, then they need to do their research on why it was done and act mature enough to be able to grapple against it with speech and proof, not tears and governmental payback. They need to find their own passion. <3 <3

 

I haven't read all 12 pages, but here is my view:

I love americans. But I also love Iraqis, Brits, Canadians, Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and even martians if they exist. People have died to defend america, but people have also died defending all the other countries listed, their money/other meagre useless possesions, their property, their "turf" (as far as gangs are concerned), and even White Power.

If someone dies for something it means they beleive in it. The people who were killed for their belief in White power could have been americans too, and so could the gang members. But we don't talk about those people when we defend "the flag" (the KKK believe themselves to be a VERY american organization). The flag represents what makes america (or whatever it is representing) america: the government. America isn't land, and it isn't people. It is the white house. A canadian, an american, and an Iraqi are not differant from each other. Yet each has died for their countries. Should we also fly an Iraqi flag honoring that people have fought and died for their country?

I would burn a flag. If I had a point to prove behind it, I would burn it. And I don't hate the people or the land of America. I don't like the government. It runs things horribly. The justice system is slow, bloodthirsty and not very accurate. The elections are not by the people (but by the Electoral College). All politicians are lazy corrupt sheep. Our economy strives on greed and selfishness (no regard for the chinese kids working themselves to death in sweatshops). I have no pride in the government. Nor have I any trust in it. It only does a few things right, and those it screws up half the time.

 

i agree. America is not its people. And even if it were, what a disjointed image that would create anyway. Each state is sovereign of itself; within each state are counties, cities, towns and villages. Each one of these usually has its own flag and governing counsel. It's not hard to find a suburb in America that has a .05% popluation of afro americans and i think it has something to do with the fact they feel unwelcome. how about burning a town flag in protest of racial inequality.

52 years ago America still segregated people as if they were livestock, yet had no reservations to annoint them with weaponry in the name of the precious flag that embodied so much prejudice and hatred against them.

To me the flag represents inequality. It represents hypocracy: the Monroe Doctrine...we won't let anyone impose upon us but damn nobody can stop us from imposing upon them. That's the US flag to me. I would burn it in honor of all those who fought because they had their freewill unjustly taken because of a draft. I would burn it for the people who right now at this very moment have US soldiers armed with 'weapons of mass destruction' walking up and down their streets.

The United States of America....when the hell have they ever really been united?

 

you do know that the grain we give to cows is of a lower grade than what humans eat, right? The corn that they're fed is not the corn that i eat.

and again, you're confusing government with country.

 

No you are putting to much importance into "country" a country is simply a large land mass or a group of people controlled by a government.

the cow/grain was to prove a point that we as a "country" consume so many meat by products *which isn't healthy what so ever for the enviroment" that the amount we put into raising/injecting hormones/slaugheter houses/meat packging etc etc etc could feed alot of people.

If you want to over emphisize the importance of "country" then realize that this "country" is full of rapist,murders,child molesters,theives, and sadly the list can go on. We are simply playing word games. Unless you want to put forth the time to put together your idea of what country is then you can hardly use the "goverment/country" you've used. To some people Goverment/Country is the same thing to others Goverment and Country are two completly diffrent things. How ever I think most will agree you are deffending Ideals and Philosphies. History and the Present. All nonmeteralistic things. You cheapen the Ideals and History of any country by of empehsizing the importance of a meaterlisitc Flag. I honestly belive that the people who founded this country would not be two pleased with the outcome.

 

You can extend that to any degree to tear down any connection. What is a state? what is a county? what is a town? what is a neighborhood. What is a family? Something we all put too much 'importance in?'

I see nothing wrong with being proud of who i am and where i come from.

MM, lets all eat corn for the rest of our lives..yummy! . We could just build giant skyscrapers and force everyone to live in there to take up as little of the land as possible. That would help the environment too. We could force everyone to walk(cause even the production of bicycles harms the environment...) everywhere.

At what point do we stop and say "whoa, personal liberty must be respected?"

You mean, the ones who created the flag, would be unhappy that we cherish it? I think you're making a mighty big assumption.

I am NOT cheapening our ideals at all. Quite the opposite. The ideas of liberty/equality/justice sit on a tall pedestal which we strive towards. Our flag represents those ideals. Those ideals are not at all tied to any material fibers. Those who burn the flag do not 'hurt' liberty or equality or justice by burning the flag. In my opinion, they just show a disrespect for those things.


As for the difference between country and state. I think anyone who knows anything about our founding fathers knows their deep mistrust of government and would NOT think to combine government and country as one entity.

 

The whole enviromentl thing was more or less mockery remeber when you said "think of the enviroment!"

I'm saying that the people who founded this country would be sad with the way it has become


I am NOT cheapening our ideals at all. Quite the opposite. The ideas of liberty/equality/justice sit on a tall pedestal which we strive towards. Our flag represents those ideals. Those ideals are not at all tied to any material fibers. Those who burn the flag do not 'hurt' liberty or equality or justice by burning the flag. In my opinion, they just show a disrespect for those things.


The flag represents nothing more then the country's logo. And when people burn the flag they aren't trying to "hurt" liberty. Quite the oppossite in most cases it just goes to show that you have a very very biased veiw on the issue. And showing disrespect to those things because you burnt a flag in protest of unjust wars and the corruption of the COUNTRY and GOVREMENT as a whole? How is that disrespect? Like someone said earlier. When they burn a flag it isn't to destroy its to reviev. Don't live life afraid of a Revolution!

 

You should be grateful because you can say that and not get arrested.

 

It has nothing to do with being afraid of 'revolution.' I'm not trying to ban flag burning. I think there are BETTER things to burn. Heck, i think there are better ways to protest than BURNING ANYTHING.


Since you seem to be a vegetarian, i'll make a comparison. Do we have the right to eat meat? Yep. Should we eat meat? Thats another question.

think about that in relation to burning a flag.

There are better ways to express oneself than burning a flag.