Burn your own flag?

long been a promoter? I wouldnt say you guys are the longest running practitioners of democracy...

 

did the EU attack France for not agreeing the the constitution of Europe, no. it isn't one side against another here in Europe.
there has been no talk in Europe about a world gov't, this was your theory.

it is also your theory that the EU will turn to tyranny. just like the Uk did when we had our last union.

we cannot compare the EU with the US

 

well it was over like every major newspaper in the world when france rejected it, claiming what a setback it was. Disarray doesn't mean the EU is like done...but it is a serious blow.

 

it was a blow, i do not deny this, however, i have not read the constitution set out yet, so i do not know if i favoured the blow or not.

 

You miss the comparisson. the EU is in its youth, and naeive, just like the US at one point. Sure its a beautiful dream, but what will 200 years do?

 

Brothwood what are you learning at Uni? It would be European law or something like that would it.

I took that and almost failed it on the basis my politics believe it is a load of bollocks.

Under your way of thinking Britain would move forward by scrapping the Royal Family, joining the EU, scrapping our currency system and basically turning Britain into just another part of Europe.

Europe needs Britain more than Britain needs Europe.

As for the EU in disarray I would say it has to be..... France voting against the constitution, Holland voting against the constitution.

They are two of the three biggest Pro EU countries there are.

And to say just because a nation rejected it doesn't stop it going forward doesn't that go against all that is democratic. We've said No but your going to do it anyway.

The Queen could at any time reject a government from taking office. She has that right. She doesn't do it because we are in a modern world whereby the people of Britain are bright enough and civilised enough to elect a government that isn't akin to that of Saddam or Hitler.

If a Saddam or Hitler character came along and took control of Britain by getting the armies on side and preventing the British people having their voice I'm sure she would not be turfed out by restoring Britain back to a great nation again.

Its all about timing. The Queen can sit back and relax because the nation is in safe hands (most of the time).

 

i do not know, and i support the beautiful dream, and i have faith it will work. maybe we can learn from America, choose the parts we dislike and like. i do believe culture can be kept, because European culture spans a longer distance than all of american history, it in inbuilt in most europeans. and i hope and pray that we can grow as one and keep our cultures.

but at present i do not feel at the UK has that much of a culture, we are basically the US. so i wouldn't mind trying to gain some more European identity

 

i study International Relations, and yes included is a course of European and British relations.

yes, britain and the EU need each other. the EU would be nothing without its member states, not just the UK.

that is your view on the monarchy, i would prefer a system where the people can bring down the gov't of the day if it abused it power. not wait upon one lady to pass judgement.

*okay i am going to bed now, i have an extremely early lecture, so thank you all for this debate, i did enjoy it
peace and love to you all*

 

I would burn an American flag due to the fact this democracy is beginning to show the negative aspects of democracy. It is ruled by people looking for their own self interests. The people in power don't care about the greater good of the nation. They are looking out for the people/ corporations that line their pockets with the most money. IE Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff, Dick Cheney and Halliburton, Robert Ney, Donald Keyser, etc. Aristotle and his teacher Plato believed democracy was a bad form of governement because political power is put into the hands of ignorant and greedy people. These people will use their political power not for the common good because they are ignorant, but will seek to advance their own good. Plato believed that democracy will lead to civil war as the people in power would be flattered by leaders of the demos, turning citizien against citizien. The people will cry for order from the chaos. A strong leader will be rallied around, but this leader will be a despot, a tyrant who cares only for power. He claims that democracy is but a few steps from tyranny. 1

I fear this is where this country is headed unless its citizens can become educated about politics.

Peace & Love

1. Ball, Terence. Political Ideologies and the Democratic Ideal. pp.22. Pearson Education, Inc. 2004.

 

You have every opportunity to stop the same powerful people being looked after by getting yourself in to a position of power.

a lot of politicians start off as lawyers and then become judges. So why not put yourself through law school. Learn all the laws of the land, become respected by your peers and then stand for local government.

If you put the effort in and have the brainpower then you have a chance to climb that pole to the top.

Its not a closed shop.

Being that the general public elect the government you can get yourself into government using people power alone. Look at Arnie. He is hardly brains of America but he is (or was, no idea of people's current feelings) popular and that got him elected.

I personally vote for the people I think talk the most sense in public debates not through advertising campaigns etc. I also watch a fair amount of the BBC parliamentary channel and it is clear who is talking sense and who isn't.

Based on this I vote for who I want to. Other people do the same. Whoever wins, wins. They are the government and just because I might not like the outcome doesn't make the system wrong.

George Bush will be gone soon and replaced by another poor chump you can all hate.

Tony Blair has just about run his course as well I think.

Don't hate your country for what your politicians do because its you who votes them in.

 

Two things are promised in america. The right to choose our leader, and the right keep a militia to rise up and "fix" the government if ever we are displeased. Hell, Thomas Jefferson recommended that the people take the government back if ever it gets out of hand.

Neither one of those are in practice. We "vote", but the ultimate decision is not up to us, its up to more politicians and large rich companies.

 

You've got be either really ignorant and totally without a clue, or joking. Arnold was elected because he's Arnold and dumbshits know the name and personality, they never stopped to check out his politics. The Republican party used him, and the people of California. We relected Gray Davis, we lived through the engery shit that Enron put us through but we had a legal normal election and relected him, the Republicans wanted one of their sheisters in office here so they pushed the special recall. See how well his "special election" did....ever item was voted down. Sometimes people do wake up and not follow the multi-million dollar marketing shit the Republicans put out.

 

Heron, don't give up hope sometimes we can make a difference, but as long as youngsters that play at being hippies and want all the latest brand name crap hold the money, and buy into marketing schemes, we will be at the corporate mercies.

 

LOL well said. Changing the world, one pair of "pre-washed, distressed, pre-tattered Diesel jeans" at a time huh.

 

Thought about becoming a lawyer. Sorry but I couldn't live with myself if I did that.

BTW, I didn't vote for Bush. I voted for the lesser of two evils.

Peace & love

 

It's more than just that. It's EVERYONE has been turned into a consumer. The US no longer has citizens. Read Culture Jam and I think most everyone would agree with what is said. Or check out http://www.adbusters.org Great site associated with the author of Culture Jam.

Peace & love

 

I'd venture to say money has all the attributes of an addictive drug

a) we are dependent upon it
b) some go to extraordinary lengths to get more of it
c) some derive happiness from it, and are depressed when they lack it
d) it causes behavioral changes (which kind of describes a and b)

I say abolish it, and reinstate a bartering system; I think it'll inspire a creative and innovative rebirth in society.

 

Very true Chick, but some of us out here can't afford to be "consumers", in the usual meaning of the word, we've learned to subsist and get by, and little by little that's what the old "middle class" is being brought to, but yeah a lot of them still buy into the spin, when it comes to voting on insurance, and medical issues, they don't realize the legislation is being set by the lobbyists for the insurance companies, not anyone that really cares. They buy into the lines that if you don't buy into this your future is insecure, well buy into their solutions and you future is secured in the knowledge that it's completely up to you no safety nets, no savings, no one cares....

I am still pissed that my 14 year old nephew has to put on a helmet to ride three houses down, because some damn insurance company here in California sold the public a bill of goods that a helmet law would reduce their rates...did it? Someone made money on the helmets and someone is making money on the insurance that should have covered the rare cases of kids getting hurt on bicycles, because the rates increased shortly after that. How many kids do I remember incurring lasting injuries on bicycles when I was growing one, my little brother he broke his big toe, think a helmet would fix that?

 

Or a total breakdown of society.

 

so you say money sustains the structural integrity of society?
because it certainly isn't the moral fabric of society; it creates inequities through infavorable distribution of wealth