Burn your own flag?

Doing them a favor? Nope. I've already said that the US government has treated Indians like crap. Yep, thats my overblown patriotism and ignorance showing. I'm not in the business of making up facts though. To say that the American government(or americans) killed millions of Indians is blatantly false. Why do i get attacked for correcting ignorance? Surely ignorance isnt valued around here...

You cloud a lot of nothing with rhetoric...so i hope you didnt mind me 'cutting to the chase.'

 

Australia: 92% white
UK: 92% white

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Kingdom#Ethnicity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia#Ethnic_groups

 

borders shouldnt seperate people, the final struggle is the calss one

 

...

 

I stand corrected.

Then again alot has happened since 2001. Five years ago you know.

The census doesn't take into account illegal immigrants though because they were never surveyed.

Also the census throws out anything that appears to be deliberately false. For example if 10000 people vote for a religion then that religion actually stands as a bonifide religion so a large number of people decided to put down "Jedi" as their religion but for some reason it isn't in the list of religions.

Interestly enough there was a whole bunch of us that did the same thing for the BBC sports personality of the year award. Basically you can vote for anyone to win this award so there was a large conspiracy to try and get Justin Fashanu to win the award. He got a huge amount of votes (Justin Fashanu was a very very average footballer, not exactly Beckham). The BBC didn't give him the award though.

 

What "usual lazy 'if'"? I only used the word if one time, and it wasn't stating an opinion or anything, just a statement that isn't showign either view. Did you MEAN if, or did you misspell another word or something?

No, I don't think ANY massacres are right! Whether they are done in occupation camps by german nazis to Jews, OR dropping two atomic bombs on undeserving CIVILIANS!!! I am not going to say we were WRONG for going, I just don't like the concept of war. In thousands of years of civilization, CERTAINLY we could have come up with some other way to solve our differances than blowing/bombing/beating each other's brains out!

But that aside, we aren't talking aboutt he war in general, we are specifically talking about how it was ENDED: by dropping an atomic bomb on two cities in Japan, killing MANY MANY MANY non-military people. Dropping the secong bomb AFTER Japan was willing to talk things out. Those are the history book fact, man.

I Come And Stand At Every Door The Byrds


I come and stand at every door
But no one hears my silent prayer
I knock and yet remain unseen
For I am dead, for I am dead

I´m only seven although I died
in Hiroshima long ago
I´m seven now as I was then
When children die they do not grow

My hair was scorched by swirling fire
My eyes grew dim, my eyes grew blind
Death came and turned my bones to dust
and that was scattered by the wind

I need no fruit, I need no rice
I need no sweets nor even bread
I ask for nothing for myself
for I am dead, for I am dead All that I ask is that for peace
You fight today, you fight today
So that the children of this world
may live and grow and laugh and play

 

I really do owe you a genuine thanks megara

 

Ok, I never saw any evidence of this and if there was i apologise. You do seem to reject however that there wasn't some form of genocide. You do also seem to reject the fact that the indians owned that land. They had as much right to sovereignity as your ancestors, but they were denied it.

You're right in saying I am a lot of rhetoric, I know less about American History than you, well obviously much less, but I do know that there is a genuine desire in this thread to shed some light on your country's past in the hope that they can steer it away from the intolerant police state that you seem to be advocating in your ideas (just an assumption i've made from many of your posts) and you're shitting on it, just like you seem to shit on every valid liberal idea, actually every intelligent American, or persons otherwise that oppose you in your thinking.

I have had arguments with you in the past, in which I gave full account of my ideas as well as evidence to back it up only to have them taunted and dismissed as 'absurd' by you. So i am not entirely a cloud full of rhetoric.

How about I give you a label...or not.

EDIT: actually, how about self appointed genius. Don't deny it.

 

Yep, i absolutely reject genocide. I see no evidence for genocide. When so many died because fo sickness, i think its very hard to say its genocide. Dont get me wrong.. I think a lot of Americans hated indians and wanted to wipe them out, but i see NO evidence of genocide on part of the American government.

Well, not all indians believed in "ownership." The famous example was the purchase of manhattan for 24 dollars in trade goods. Most of the American continent we gained from European countries(britain..spain, france, russia) and then mexico. That covers the vast majority of American land except the NW.

Also, how do so many nomadic tribes have ownership over specific land?

The story of the American Indians is a very sad and tragic one. Disease decimated them, and there was no way that anyone could expect a huge population to stay on just the eastern seaboard.

Dont be foolish, i want nothing of a police state...and i bet i advocate more freedoms than your average person here.

I'm sorry, but saying "America killed millions of Indians " is not a liberal ideal. It is a fantasy, fake, not true, factually incorrect. Yes, i will shit all over lies. I'm sorry.

 

I've been reanalysing those figures and have come up with something that may be interesting.

The census is performed by sending out pieces of paper in an envelope that then have to be sent back. (its the law you know).

But........

There are a large number of somalians, bangladeshes etc that don't understand a word of English and would probably not have filled in the census. I bet that 8% is a lot higher. Especially 5 years on.

Probably not as much as I thought originally though. I think what may make it seem that there are more immigrants is that they generally stay in the cities and in one area of the city.

I am going to relax my views on this subject though I think and be a little less defensive.

 

Yes, it actually surprised me to hear that the white percentage was 97%. I live in one of the least multicultural cities in Australia and every 3rd person I see is not white. 90% is a more believable figure.

Thanks for saying you'll relax your views on the subject, but I never saw you give your opinion on racism. (that is the argument between me and gary)

If your talking about the American Indian issue, I am going to relax and get off your case a little, i'm assuming you were born in America so you can't be expected to take on the entire responsibility for the country's past. Most of my feelings come from my experiences in and knowledge of Australia. I can give you a lot of evidence about the well, 'spiritual and social fullness' of Aboriginal Australian culture, and our country blatantly hunted down these people for the purpose of ethnic cleansing in many cases. They became extinct from Tasmania. We made a race of people EXTINCT...ok, i'll stop ranting. Note I do recognise that half if not more of the problem was introduced disease. Anyway, the prime minister of our country refused, and still refuses to enact some sort of reconciliation (as demanded and expected from both black and white people), simply because 'it wasn't his fault'. Australian's are also ignorant of many of the facts about our past experiences with Aboriginals. I don't know what the situation is over in America, but if its anything like it is here, then I would feel that maybe you should give the original owners of the land a little more respect than you do in your posts.

Again, like i said, i don't know about American History so sorry to judge. I'm also not saying that the situation isn't improving over here, there are just a few things missing: Reconciliation, the improval of average aboriginal living standards above that of the 3rd lowest in the entire world, and a fuller education that doesn't just dismiss Aboriginals as 'primitive' and 'unwise'. Our culture lacks their devotion to humanity and the earth in many ways. Its up to all people involved of course to take responsibility, thats why I'll fight for aboriginal rights.

On the topic of burning the flag, I no longer see much of a point. I don't believe in it and thats what matters. Like a lot of pro flag burners have said, the flag doesn't define the people. So then who cares about the flag?

 

I do.

 

I know. Sorry to speak for anyone else...but to me its just a piece of fabric. Its the people, what they believe and what they do that matters.

Goin to bed tricks...good night

 

I have an Aussie flag over my couch




Night matey

 

Yeah, I would burn the flag of "my country". Patriotism makes me angry and confused. Why? Why is anyone proud of their country? What is a country anyway? It is just a bunch of people that live in the same designated area. What kind of loyalty do I have to the place where I live? Absolutely none. I urge everyone to forget these silly national ties and take up internationalism. Burn ALL the flags. We are all the same; living in a "country" with a different name means nothing. Forget the past, live in the present. The United States of America means nothing to me.

Join the revolution! The revolution for peace!

 

peaceloveandshrooms. The only way internationalism would ever work is if we all became hippies and ate shrooms. It is a bunk concept. Its no different to globalisation.

 

You don't understand. The atomic bomb ended a war which would have killed more civilians and troops on both sides. Emperro Hirohito made NO reply to the first drop. THey weren't willing to talke. THat's why they dropped the second one. Get your facts straight.

 

Lying in a field,
Internationalism would most def. work and I believe it has to. Can you explain to me where the loyalty you feel for your nation comes from? Nations are arbitrary plots of land; all they do is separate mankind into sections that can fight with each other. What's the point? We are all human, and no matter how different we appear, we're really all the same.

All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers. ~François Fénelon

Oh yeah, Happy Valentine's Day!

 

Nations are more than plots of land. They are filled with people and their pride for the land they come from. They have borders to try to equal out numbers so not to have the place overrun. It's called order, as much as it can be.


I'd advise you to get that chip off your shoulder, because i don't know one person who would agree with you.

 

I do.