buddhism and marijuana

Discussion in 'Buddhism' started by andrew998, May 14, 2007.

  1. mandell

    mandell Banned

    Yeah, I guess, in some way, getting an education is a form of consumption.

    After all, most of us PAY for college, we PAY to buy certain books, some of us PAY to learn certain forms of knowledge such as yoga, etc. etc...

    Even learning things off the internet is a form of consumption. In order to do this, most of us certainly pay for an Internet connection, energy bill, etc. etc.
     
  2. hippie_chick666

    hippie_chick666 Senior Member

    Medications are NOT intoxicants!

    Peace and love
     
  3. snake sedrick

    snake sedrick Banned

    Some are. Sleeping pills being one example, valium(temazepan) and other tranquilizers another. Arguably, these are more harmful and more addictive than many substances used recreationally. But cannabis is not an intoxicant in my definition. How others define it is their own choice.
     
  4. Autentique

    Autentique wonderfabulastic

    Wasnt relating it to money.
     
  5. hippie_chick666

    hippie_chick666 Senior Member

    IF you are saying that by me taking my medication for bipolar disorder I am breaking the fifth precept, I say bullshit. The Dali Lama has made it clear that medications do NOT break the fifth precept, unless you abuse them (which I don't.)

    Peace and love
     
  6. Xac

    Xac Visitor

    No they are not, however I'm going to make the assumption that was instead a comment "those are not things you consume" because the answer to your question was obvious im sure.

    So having said that, what relevance does consumption have to do with your definition of an intoxicant, if you didnt make it a premise?
     
  7. Xac

    Xac Visitor

    Yeah i think the fith precept, is more about ensuring that we grow and develop as best as possible, not avoid all chemicals as works of the devil. What i mean is that addiction or drunkness for example make it very hard for an individual to think straight and is harmful to the mind and emotions, make it impossible to reach enlightenment, and if enlightenment is not the ultimate goal then there is no, point in being a Buddhist. So in terms of medication, if it actually helps the individual into a healthy state of being and allows them the clarity to reach enlightenment, it is progressive to the goal of Buddhism.

    P.S. I do not consider myself Buddhist.
     
  8. hippie_chick666

    hippie_chick666 Senior Member

    Right on Xac! I agree with your way of thinking.

    Peace and love
     
  9. snake sedrick

    snake sedrick Banned

    If medication does indeed help a person, then obviously it's a good thing. I'm not disputing that. However, there are definite known side effects with some medications, which in my experience can be quite bad.
    The fact is, that some medications used to treat diseases like arthritis fall into this category. They may bring some relief, but have long term ill effects too.
    Some arthritis sufferers have found that cannabis can be substituted for the existing prescribed medications, and they experience the same relief from symptoms, but without the side effects.

    Others just find it turns on a layer of the mind which is hard to acess in other ways.
     
  10. Autentique

    Autentique wonderfabulastic

    ok.. let me clarify myself.
    Im neither saying that marihuana or medications are or arent intoxicants, because they are both in depends the mindset with which you are doing things and the purpose they have for you.
     
  11. mandell

    mandell Banned

    And so is religion, including Buddhism can be considered as intoxicants, for the same reason that they depend on the mindset with which people do things and the purpose they have.
     
  12. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

    buddha smoked weed but he stayed away from the more concentrated hash
     
  13. snake sedrick

    snake sedrick Banned

    Chief- is this based on a tradition, or just fun? or both even...
     
  14. Autentique

    Autentique wonderfabulastic

    I agree.
     
  15. mandell

    mandell Banned

    Buddha taught that there is suffering and there is an end to suffering.

    Buddhists made is so complicated.
     
  16. Isil

    Isil Member

    Yes >.< Youre quite right.
     
  17. Xac

    Xac Visitor

    In the spirit of lively discussion let me break this down, for my self atleast. In otherwords you have nothing to say about marijuana or medications. Your main point, (correct me if i am wrong) is that intoxicants can be anything depending on your mindset and the purpose for the object of our attention.

    Given that is true, why did you feel the need to point out 3 things which fit your original definition of intoxicant, as "things you don't consume"?
     
  18. Autentique

    Autentique wonderfabulastic

    what did i say i do not consume and when?

    what three things?

    because marihuana, i smoke marihuana and medications, not really on any medication, but hey why take medication if I dont need it.. and what's the other thing?
    I've never really have stopped smoking pot but the mindset has defitinely changed.
    It started not being an intoxicant, it became one and then I saw what had changed in me and when you see that you can change once more.. but that's another thing.
     
  19. darrellkitchen

    darrellkitchen Lifetime Supporter

    If the quote you entered was your own original thought, I guess I'd be inclined to say, "nice"! But since it wasn't, then I must assume you really don't have anything original to say about what suffering, or the origin to suffering really is.

    Yes, Buddha did teach there is suffering. And he did teach there is an end to suffering. But you are forgetting other details such as, he taught the origin of suffering, and a path that leads to and end of suffering. The path being Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livlihood, Right Mindfulness, Right Effort, and Right Concentration.

    The origin to suffering is NOT craving and clinging to "objects" of perception. Rather it is a craving and clinging to the feelings we have for the sensations we experience when contact between sense faculty and object of sense faculty occurs.

    This "desire, passion, ardour, pursue of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity" are also not the things we crave and cling to, but rather the feelings we derive from the experience of such.

    It's not the Buddhists who made the teachings of Buddha "so complicated", its people who want to continue craving and clinging to the very things that give them pleasure by justifying their need to possess and acquire these things.

    Yes Buddha taught that craving and clinging to ideas and notions of self is suffering. But it was taught as the first noble truth is the Aggregates of Clinging. That clinging to forms is identification of self, that clinging to feelings is identification of self, that clinging to perceptions is identification of self, that clinging to mental ideas or volition is identification of self, that clinging to consciousness is identification of self. That clinging is a causal result of craving, and craving a causal result of feelings and that feelings are of three types (really five); greed (physical greed and mental greed), ill-will (physical ill-will and mental ill-will), and delusion or confusion.

    This result of clinging is from craving and this craving is a result of greed, ill-will and delusion (confusion) ... here's your Ignorance.

    The second noble truth identifies Ignorance as being the root cause to suffering in that its appearance, or rather its continual appearance causes the appearance of volition (kamma, karma). That the appearance of volition, or rather its continual appearance causes the appearance of consciousness. That the appearance of consciousness, or rather its continual appearance causes the appearance of name and form (mental and physical forms). That the appearance of name and form, or rather its continual appearance causes the appearance of the six base sense (namely eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind). That the appearance of the six base, or rather their continual appearance causes the appearance of contact. That the appearance of contact with the six base, or rather their continual appearance causes the appearance of feelings. That the appearance of feelings, or rather their continual appearance causes the appearance of craving. That the appearance of craving, or rather its continual appearance causes the appearance of clinging. That the appearance of clinging, or rather the continual appearance causes the appearance of becoming (notions of existence). That the appearance of becoming, or rather its continual appearance causes the appearance of birth. And finally that the appearance of birth, or rather its continual appearance causes the appearance of death. This is the origin of suffering ... namely Ignorance being the root and greed, ill-will, and delusion being its causal factor, which could be understood as "the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things."

    On to the third noble truth one only has to deconstruct the second noble truth in reverse, i.e., to end the appearance of death one has to cease indulging in the continual appearance of birth, to end the appearance of birth one has to cease indulging in the continual appearance of becoming, to end the appearance of becoming one has to cease indulging in the continual appearance of clinging, to end the appearance of clinging one has to cease indulging in the continual appearance of craving ... to end the appearance of volition one has to cease indulging in ignorance ... cease indulging in greed ... cease indulging in ill-will ... cease indulging in confusion, delusion.

    And the fourth noble truth, which I've already mentioned above is further subdivided down to three aspects of which these aspects are found in the fourth noble truth, but the fourth noble truth is not the aspects themselves. These aspects being: Morality (pali: Sila) which are found in Right Speech, Right Action, and Right Livelihood; Meditative Concentration (pali: Samadhi) which are found in Right Mindfulness, Right Effort and Right Concentration; and Wisdom (pali: Panna) which is found in Right View and Right Intention.

    It is better for one to be addicted to what is good over being addicted to what is not good. Better still to be addicted to nothing at all than to be addicted to what is good. But one has to start somewhere. Easier it is to move to what is good from what is bad than directly into nothing at all, and from what is good to nothing at all.

    As for my stance on indulging in Marijuana. It's not marijuana that one is defends, but rather the feelings one gets from indulging in it that is being defended here and Buddhism is about being free from indulgence in the feelings from which come greed, ill-will and delusion. One cannot be free from the very thing one seeks freedom from by craving and clinging to it.

    It's people like you, mandell, who make Buddhism complicated ... not the Buddhists themselves.



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  20. darrellkitchen

    darrellkitchen Lifetime Supporter

    Why do you think your so important to do anything of a sort?

    At least I stopped. You ... You're still at it.
     

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