Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by BlackBillBlake, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    If it wasn’t so serious I’d laugh

    So it’s revealed the Brexit negotiating stance for the EU trade deal is to claim the EU is been unfair to us, and hope nobody blames them then the shit hits the fan.

    Still no detailed proposals just moans and groans and chest thumping threats of walking away if they don’t get what they want.

    But that seems to be it.

    As said I’m not surprising by this because in the past 30 years of Euroscepticism and 4 years of heated Brexit debate no leaver has ever come up with any coherent and rational plan that fills the criteria of making us better off than we were as members of the EU.

    We are getting closer to the crunch point where fantasy comes up against reality and the unicorn falls into the meat grinder
     
  2. That post is exactly why I don't bother with you most of the time. You just don't understand some basic concepts, then act angry to cover that up

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/bilateral-agreements

    "A bilateral agreement (or what is sometimes refered to as a "side deal") is a broad term used simply to cover agreements between two parties. For international treaties, they can range from legal obligations to non-binding agreements of principle (often used as a precursor to the former).

    Most of the EU’s main trading partners who do not have a full free trade deal have various bilateral agreements with the EU. The EU has hundreds of these agreements with countries around the world.

    In discussions around Brexit, these terms are used to describe agreements between the UK and the EU, or between the UK and an individual EU member state, which deal with some aspect of the relationship that is not covered in the main agreement."
     
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    VG

    Oh my poor little VG even when you try to defend your gibberish you mess up.

    Are bilateral agreements the same as trade deals?

    LOL well that is actually answered in the very thing you quote

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/bilateral-agreements

    And it says emphatically

    NO

    *

    Are bilateral agreements the same as trade deals?

    No. Trade deals focus on reducing or eliminating tariffs, import quotas, export restraints and other trade barriers between states. The rules for trade deals are set by the World Trade Organization (WTO), which states that they must cover “substantially” all trade between the two countries.

    Bilateral agreements do not cover these issues and so are not bound by the WTO rules requiring them to be comprehensive. Instead they are often very specific, targeting an individual policy area. Due to their narrowness, a bilateral agreement could not replicate a trade deal that covers the majority of UK-EU trade in depth.

    *

    Come on man try and defend your gibberish again I love it when you try to be clever then fall flat on your face.
     
  4. Europe's coronavirus outbreak is exposing -- and fueling -- its rifts
    Analysis by Luke McGee, CNN


    Updated 1157 GMT (1957 HKT) February 27, 2020

    London (CNN)The dramatic outbreak of the novel coronavirus in northern Italy has forced European leaders to sharpen their thinking, as they attempt to contain a disease that has so far killed more than 2,800 people.

    Europe is prepared for handling outbreaks like this. The European Union has no formal role in setting health policy among its member states, however it does issue advice and coordinate efforts to prevent the spread of disease. That coordination is especially important when you consider that while many European nations share open borders, their governments do not trust and are not inclined to work with one another. The EU has been able to provide a forum and fill gaps in information where this has been the case. And for now, it appears to be working.
    No matter how well Europe is handling this current crisis, the outbreak is unintentionally fanning the flames of several live debates.


    A virus that originated in China and spread to two of Italy's most active economic areas, home to Milan and Venice, creates a perfect storm. It tangentially touches on many of the EU's current priorities and has the potential to affect them negatively both in the short and long term.


    First, there is the perennial question of how effective the bureaucratic body in charge of the bloc is at dealing with continent-wide challenges. In terms of health, the EU can only really act as an advisory body, as healthcare ultimately falls to national governments.
    "While the EU does a good job of spreading knowledge and calming down public opinion, it has no real powers and member states can go off in their own direction," says Andrea Renda, a senior research fellow at the Centre for European Policy Studies. He goes on to explain that what the EU needs is "coordination and trust."
    The coronavirus outbreak has also exposed the ever-shaky levels of trust between EU member states. "There's a meaningful lack of trust," says Mujtaba Rahman of the Eurasia Group. "There is a feeling in Italy that the numbers are high because the government has been aggressive in its policy response. There is also a feeling that other member states have lower numbers because they haven't been aggressive." Italy has tested more potential coronavirus patients than some other EU countries.
    In EU politics, trust matters. Smaller, poorer member states often argue that wealthier counterparts have greater influence in setting Europe's agenda. They say that has previously meant Greece having austerity measures imposed on it in exchange for financial bailouts or Malta being forced to take refugees fleeing wars in the Middle East.
    In areas like these, smaller states often feel as though they are negotiating with a gun against their head. This creates a problem for the EU when it needs these states to agree on larger, longer-term policy objectives that require agreement across the union.
    Which brings us to the next issue of what role the EU should be playing in an increasingly complicated, multi-polar world. The bloc is smarting from the near-total collapse of the Iran nuclear deal, which it previously hailed as a prime example of how it could exert its soft power to create a forum for real global change.
    The European Commission, under its new President Ursula von der Leyen, is attempting to increase the EU's geopolitical footprint.
    This outbreak has given the EU an opportunity to lay down a marker as a global leader. On Monday, the Commission announced $252 million in funding to prevent the spread.

    Europe's coronavirus outbreak is exposing -- and fueling -- its rifts - CNN
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    VG

    What the fuck are you on about now?
     
  6. lode

    lode One Man Orgy HipForums Supporter

    In Dallas we call dumping a girl before she finds out she's too good for you Brexiting.
     
    Gul Dukat likes this.
  7. Bloody hell, coronovirus cases in Italy exploded, 820 cases, 21 deaths

    In, what was that, two weeks

    Tell me that's not mismanagement when countries right next door still only have a dozen cases
     
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    VG

    You’re now blaming the coronavirus on the EU and as a reason for Brexit?

    Are you nuts or what?
     
    SuzanneAU1977 likes this.
  9. You sound like a dick by adding something to do with a chinese deadly flu bug and brexit which is totally different.
     
  10. Surely VG is taking the p155 here
     
  11. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Members

    No Suzanne darlin' - he's a knuckle dragger !!!
     
    SuzanneAU1977 likes this.
  12. Does have to do with Brexit, as the way the different EU countries handle this gives away how effective their governments are at not just handling this, but everything else.

    Also highlights how legless the EU Parliament is in influencing the politics of member countries.

    It's already obvious Italy was slow to get a handle on the spread of infections
     
  13. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    im just here to get this thread to 100 pages
     
  14. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    What are the benefits of Brexit?

    Well rumours continue that this Brexit government still doesn’t have a clue what to do and has begun to realise the actual realities of Brexit rather than the fantasy they peddled either through ideology or to gain power.

    Something that was brought up by many remainers that was dismissed by leavers as ‘project fear’ was the likely adverse impact that Brexit would have on sectors of the UK economy.

    Manufacturing - Food (fishing and Agriculture) -Services.

    Well today let look at

    Fishing and Agriculture

    Leavers said fishing and farming would flourish in a Brexit Britain, remainers pointed out that given the data it was more probable that they would be devastated (through cuts in subsidies, regulations and the loss of markets).

    We also pointed out this was a neoliberal project being pushed by neoliberals for neoliberal ends. That they were unlikely to keep up the subsidies that many farmers depended on to exist or give the assistance needed in hard times.

    Yes fishing isn’t a large sector but was talked a lot about by leavers during the campaign with its rather jingoistic shouting of ‘taking back control of OUR waters’. The more realist remainers however kept explaining that fishing could very easily find itself in real difficulties in anything but the mildest Brexit (it exports most of it catch to the EU) and that in anything harder that it would probably need government assistance and investment.

    Neoliberals hate government subsidies, assistance and investment

    So it not surprising that leaked Treasury report from a economics adviser has acknowledged that such things as fishing and farming are of no critical importance to the country’s economy and basically the government should take the opportunity of Brexit to let them go.

    I don’t think this is going to happen immediately as this would devastate those coastal and rural areas that were bamboozled into voting for Brexit, but imagine it will be the Tory direction of travel.

    This could lead to more wilding of the countryside but another route and probably the one more favoured by neoliberals would be for the small family farms that go bust to be bought up by giant agribusinesses to bring in highly automated but low regulation industrial farming.
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    LOL

    One minute the Brexit crowd are telling us how all controlling and all powerful is the EU and that is why we had to leave

    The next they are going on about how powerless and ineffectual the EU is that that is why it was a good thing we left.

    As said they haven’t a clue what they are going on about, it’s all just words with no reason or rational thought behind them.
     
  16. No it doesn't.
    Brexit is for exiting the european union.
    The coronavirus was not around when this started.
     

  17. Number of cases as of today:

    Italy 2036
    Germany 165
    France 191
    Spain 120


    UK 40
     
  18. It's got nothing to do with the coronavirus that is going around.
    It has a lot to do with people travelling to china and back again.

    In Australia alone there are about 10 cases with one person dying from it.
    Remember Australia is NOT part of the EU.

    So you are wrong.
     
  19. The disparity between how the different EU countries manage this and everything else....and the effectiveness of the cost of the additional EU Parliament does have everything to do why Britain is better off Brexiting however
     
  20. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    VG

    What are you going on about again?

    Do you even engage your reasoning faculties before speaking?

    As said leaver made this big deal about how the EU was TOO controlling now you are seemingly getting at the EU for not been controlling enough.

    Thing is that counter to all the Brexit bullshit about EU control, the member nations of the EU were (for good or ill) always under their own control as seen in this crisis.

    As to the cost of the EU we have been through that many times and we got a lot more out of membership than we put in and you don’t dispute that in any rational way.

    So what the fuck are you on about?
     
    SuzanneAU1977 likes this.

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