Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by BlackBillBlake, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Dominic Cummings is setting himself up as the main power in the country.

    He has basically engineer a chancellor who stood up to him so he could be replaced with a puppet and he will now have not just control of No10 but No11 as well.

    Funny that now most of the UK policy decisions are in the hands of an unelected bureaucrat but that is Brexit for you – the imaginary was an abomination while the reality is a triumph of ‘common sense’.

    Dominic wants to spend money he know Brexit will be bad for the economy so he wishes to spread some cash around so that the cracks aren’t noticed (or at least not by the Brexit base).

    It’s about a left leaning even socialist belief in spending for a nationalistic Brexit end, an emphasis on big projects (like HS2* and autobahns or maybe not the second) as well as local worth projects like more buses and cycle lanes.

    * That emply a lot of people and give the ability to funnel money to donars through the awarding of contracts.

    Let’s see a combination of socialism and nationalism I wonder what you could call that LOL
     
    SuzanneAU1977 likes this.
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Where are all the trade deals?

    I remember Brexit people telling me that trade deals were easy and that we would have loads in place by the time we relinquished our membership of the EU.

    Some said that countries would be banging down our door wanting to have trade deals. That we would have so many deals and deals that were much better than any of the deals we had as part of the EU that we would be able to make up for all the loss of the trade with the EU and could basically tell them to sod off.

    But we have now stopped been a member of the EU and we have only a few trade deals and none of them are in any way better than what we had before I think all of them are cut and paste of what we had before through the EU and those only amount, I believe, to representing around 8% of total UK trade.

    Many countries seem to be holding off from negotiations to see what happens with the UK/EU deal and other like the US and Australia seem to be prioritising deals with the EU before ones with the UK – there does not seem to be any banging down of doors but there does seem to be some polite knocking at a door but that door seems to be the EU’s, not Britain’s.

    The worrying thing

    If you have ever lived in a country where there was haggling or even if you’ve been involved in a tendering process you will basically see the underlying principles of a trade deal.

    It’s about getting what is best for you or your company at the expense of the other player.

    And you have less power if you are in the weaker position.

    In very simple terms if you are in the desert and running out of water then the lone water seller can charge you as much as they can and you either pay up or walk away and die.

    Most economic analysts think that the UK is going to be increasingly desperate for trade deals as the effects of Brexit hit.

    Other nations have not just done damage to their economies they don't need to rush into anything, but the UK has they could just be waiting to see how desperate the UK gets.
     
    SuzanneAU1977 likes this.
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Where are the benefits that Brexit will bring?

    Boris and co have brought out their Brexit immigration plan – and I should not have been surprised but yes more lies.

    Brexit has basically warped everything, to make any of it seem worthwhile they have to lie.

    No one pushing Brexit can be honest about Brexit because if you are honest about Brexit it make it oh so clear that it is crap.

    The proposed immigration policy seems mainly aimed at keeping out so called ‘low skilled workers’ from the EU, this was a concern of many people but basically due the lies and misrepresentation of the right wing and its media supporters that liked to blame migrants to the UK for low wages and lack of jobs.

    The problem is that it wasn’t ‘too many’ Europeans it was UK neoliberal policies that favoured limiting workers’ rights and squeezing benefits.

    Also many of the ‘low skilled’ jobs already have vacancies they could already be applied to by British born workers and the unemployed.

    Now in the past the government has used the technique of the job centre offering a job and if you refuse your benefits are cut and if you get sacked from that job you have become ‘wilfully unemployed’ and so get your benefits cut.

    Is that how they are going to force people to fill the labour shortage gap?

    So employees are going to lose workers that have actual sort the job and so are presumable enthusiastic to be there for workers that are only there because they have to be. Also some people are not suited to some jobs (I’m thinking of the care sector).

    Anyway when asked about the labour shortage the policy is likely to might bring about the home secretary produced another lie that there are 8.5 million people looking for work when actually that figure was made up of ‘2.3 million students and 2.1 million long-term sick, as well as more than 1.1 million who are retired and 1.9 million who are looking after their family or home. Fewer than 1.9 million of the total were recorded as wanting a job’.

    Social care providers were loudest in their warnings about the blow the new immigration rules would deal to their sector, migrants make up around 17 per cent of staff in adult social care (40 per cent in London) and there are supposedly more than 120,000 unfilled vacancies in this sector in the UK anyway.

    Now the places with the highest unemployment rates are in the North of England, but most of the jobs that will be effected by this migration policy (agriculture, hospitality, construction and adult social care) are in the more southern areas of the UK (look at the 40% for adult social care workers in London).

    So are a lot of the unemployed in the north going to be forced to relocate to the south where house prices and rents are the highest?

    Sorry but such policies might go down well with the Daily Mail but seem ill though through and at odds with the real world.
     
    SuzanneAU1977 likes this.
  4. Gul Dukat

    Gul Dukat Kanar, anyone? HipForums Supporter

    The USSR?
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Or we could call it National Socialism….and where have I heard that before…. LOL
     
  6. Lol, new British passports are made by a Dutch company in Poland

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Members


    Seems we are internationalist, rather than some narrow minded zenophobes !!!
     
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Where are the benefits in Brexit?

    There was a joke going the rounds that leavers knew so little about the actual issues of Brexit that many of them could only mumble ‘passports and fish’ in response to anything about the subject or why they wanted Brexit.

    Well neither actually worked but let’s look at passports as they seem to be in the news at the moment mainly something about them been black not blue.

    Really the colour doesn’t matter it would it gets you but as said many leavers its seems were nostalgic for the older blue passports the UK before 1988 when they became red, the thing is there is a myth that the EU forced the UK to turn the passports red but that is completely untrue it’s a myth (like so many reasons for Brexit) the burgundy colour is recommended, but not mandated, by EU rules so for example Croatia, has blue passports.

    But the important thing about this move to blue/black passports is that we have lost so much because of it and gained nothing.

    The UK/EU passport was part of our European citizenship it gave us many rights and privileges under EU laws depending on any deal these could all be lost, the right to live and work in any EU country is just one of things that is likely to be lost.

    Another thing that is lost is British jobs the UK company that lost the contract to print the new blue UK passports had to cut I believe 170 jobs at its factory in Gateshead.

    And as said above the ‘British’ passports are now made in Poland by as Franco-Dutch firm. The British tax payer is funding EU firms and workers to produce passports that are only been made because leavers didn’t want to be part of the EU. And they say irony is dead.
     
  9. National Minimum wage
    Poland € 610 a month
    Germany € 1584 a month
    UK € 1622 a month

    Passports won't be the only thing the Polish will be making more of for the British in the future

    All Britain has to do is trade more with poorer EU countries to undercut the rest of the EU and expand trade with Africa to take the EU out of the equation in relevant industries

    At half the labour costs, a temporary bitch fight with tariffs will be irrelevant
     
  10. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    VG

    So are you suggesting the UK cuts the real term wages of British workers by over half so they can compete with the Poles?

    How is that a Brexit benefit?

    And how the fuck are we meant to do that? What are we going to trade that we don’t trade now and any trade deal we get will be with the EU27 not seperate states

    Again what are you on about - what industries what are we suddenly going to find to trade that we don’t trade right now?

    UK-Africa trade was worth £33.1bn in 2018 in the same year UK exports to the EU were £291 billion.

    EU28 exports to Africa in 2018 were 152 billion euros (say £130bn)

    Of course the UK should be seeking new trade but what seems to be happening is that the UK is replicating the African EPA’s (the Economic Partnership Agreements) that were set up by the EU, so basically we could have done this trade while in the EU.

    “We are working hard to ensure continuity of trading arrangements as the UK leaves the EU, so that businesses will be able to continue to trade as they do currently,” said Emma Wade-Smith who was appointed Trade Commissioner for Africa in June 2018 – ‘as they do currently’ – with us in the EU.

    As I’ve asked before where is the improvement of been out of the EU? Maybe the UK can improve on these deals but can they to the extent that it makes up for the economic hit we have already had and will continue to have from leaving, I think that unlikely.

    So you do want to force UK workers to take a drastic pay cut? How do you do that and in what way is that a Brexit benefit?

    And there was meant to be no tariffs remember, no bitch fights, weren’t we meant to hold all the cards?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020

  11. And what happens when UK-Africa trade is £200 billion? There are 54 countries on that continent

    In this utopian socialist lovefest that is the EU, why exactly is it that the Polish minimum wage is half what it is in Britain or Germany?

    16 of those 27 countries have a GDP per capita under $US 30,000. Increase trade with them where labour costs are half, making short term tariffs irrelevant

    UK does have the upper hand because besides the 10 wealthiest EU countries, there are another 185 countries in the world
     
  12. "Google said in an FAQ that those unhappy with the change have a simple solution to deal with it: “If you don’t agree to the new terms, you should remove your content and stop using the services. You can also end your relationship with us at any time by deleting your Google Account.”

    Google UK User Data to Be Shipped to the US, Instead of Dublin



    Google Confirms Plans to Move Briton’s Data to US
    INCREASE / DECREASE TEXT SIZE
    ED TARGETTEDITOR21ST FEBRUARY 2020

    Google has confirmed that its US business will be the controller of UK users’ data from next month, instead of Google Ireland Ltd.


    Google cited Brexit uncertainty for the move, in a statement that was greeted with some confusion by the legal community.

    The move will arguably mean the personal information of tens of millions of the UK’s Google users faces less robust privacy protections.

    “Because the UK is leaving the EU, we’ve updated our Terms so that a United States based company, Google LLC, is now your service provider instead of Google Ireland Limited”, it said in updated terms today.



    This is all really just to avoid the EU digital services tax
     
  13. The General Data Protection Regulation (EU) 2016/679 (GDPR) is a regulation in EU law on data protection and privacy in the European Union (EU) and the European Economic Area (EEA). It also addresses the transfer of personal data outside the EU and EEA areas


    "IT professionals expect that compliance with the GDPR will require additional investment overall: over 80 percent of those surveyed expected GDPR-related spending to be at least US$100,000.[49] The concerns were echoed in a report commissioned by the law firm Baker & McKenzie that found that "around 70 percent of respondents believe that organizations will need to invest additional budget/effort to comply with the consent, data mapping and cross-border data transfer requirements under the GDPR."[50] The total cost for EU companies is estimated at around €200 billion while for US companies the estimate is for $41.7 billion."



    General Data Protection Regulation - Wikipedia
     
  14. The Spanish Council of Ministers approved on Tuesday (18 February) a national digital services tax known as the “Google tax”, as well as financial transactions tax, EURACTIV’s partner EuroEFE reported.

    The decision now puts Spain ahead in the international negotiations headed by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) worldwide, with the view of putting in place a global “digital services tax”.

    However, after pressure from the US, which has threatened several times in the past to impose new tariffs on the EU if such a tax is passed, the Spanish coalition executive decided to postpone the collection of an estimated €1.8 billion until December, EFE reported.

    Spain delays collection of 'Google tax' amid US pressure
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    VG

    Do you listen to yourself?

    Again

    UK-Africa trade was worth £33.1bn in 2018 in the same year UK exports to the EU were £291 billion.

    EU28 exports to Africa in 2018 were 152 billion euros (say £130bn)

    You are saying you believe that the UK is suddenly going to find loads new things to trade that we don’t trade right now and then sell more of it than the combined EU28 has ever done.

    Have you a timescale for this miracle?

    What the fuck are you going on about, honestly can you explain your thinking in any of this crap?

    LOL hell man this is just meaningless blather

    I think you are so wrapped up in fighting imaginary socialist dragons than you can't think straight
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  16. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Leavers haven’t got a clue

    Whenever a Brexit supporter makes a comment about the thing they are supposed to support they make it abundantly clear they haven’t a clue what they are talking about.

    They didn’t have a clue about the issues in the run up to leaving and they don’t have a clue about what to do next.

    They didn’t deal in reality then but they are going to have to face reality now and they obviously don’t know how to.

    The questions, possibilities and probabilities that should have been worked out before stepping off the cliff are now having to be looked at while plummeting ever faster downward.

    To me it seems a little late to be examining the problems associated with stepping off a cliff and trying to work out a plan to lessen the results of contact with the sharp rock below after taking the step rather than before but….

    I wonder when these leavers are going to realise that all those Brexit people who told them they would be able to fly were lying to them.
     
  17. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Ok I asked VG to explain his gibberish but its no surprise he can’t but I can explain why it is gibberish

    Well the EU is not a utopian socialist lovefest –as I’ve pointed out before critics on the left believe it is too neoliberal and those on the right think it too socialist.

    People that supported Brexit seemed to go on and on about the EU controlling everything but the fact was it doesn’t really control much and that has been decided on by the membership, really individual state could do as they wish and so the difference in things like the levels of minimum wage in each country.

    This really is gibberish, I mean for a start any trade deal with the EU covers all the EU members, the UK can’t make special deals with some states and not others.

    Then there is the question I’ve asked before (for which VG has no answer) what are we going to sell wen outside of the EU that we could not have sold to countries when inside the EU?

    After that I’m unsure what he means by short term tariffs, in an agreement tariffs and quotas are set even under WTO rules there are set tariffs, a country can set them lower (at the risk to their own industries) but not higher.
     
  18. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Now this bit of flimflam deserves its own post

    This has been one of the simplistic and disingenuous arguments put out by leavers from the beginning that is now seeming a worn and tarnished.

    It was always uttered by those like VG that had no knowledge or understanding of the subject.

    I mean I remember Brexit people telling me over and over that trade deals were easy and that we would have loads in place by the time we relinquished our membership of the EU.

    And all of them would be better than the ones we had as members of the EU it was going to be a great new world, of light and riches

    Many leavers said that countries would be banging down our door wanting to have trade deals. That we would have so many deals and so superior to any of the deals we had as part of the EU that we would be able to make up for all the loss of the trade with the EU and could basically tell them to sod off.

    But we have now stopped been a member of the EU and we have only a few trade deals and none of them are in any way better than what we had before I think all of them are cut and paste of what we had before through the EU and those only amount, I believe, to representing around 8% of total UK trade.

    Many countries seem to be holding off from negotiations to see what happens with the UK/EU deal and others like the US and Australia seem to be prioritising deals with the EU before ones with the UK – there does not seem to be any banging down of doors but there does seem to be some polite knocking at a door but that door seems to be the EU’s, not Britain’s.

    If you have ever lived in a country where there was haggling or even if you’ve been involved in a tendering process you will basically see the underlying principles of a trade deal.

    It’s about getting what is best for you or your company at the expense of the other player.

    And you have less power if you are in the weaker position.

    In very simple terms if you are in the desert and running out of water then the lone water seller can charge you as much as they can and you either pay up or walk away…and die.

    Most economic analysts think that the UK is going to be increasingly desperate for trade deals as the effects of Brexit hit.

    As someone has pointed out the UK has basically voted for trade sanctions against itself.

    Other nations have not just done damage to their economies but the UK has they could just be waiting to see how desperate the UK gets.
     
  19. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Where is the plan

    We were meant to have published the plan my now – we begin negotiations next Monday and nothing – the Brexit camp have had literally years to think about this but still nothing

    We just don’t seem to have even the semblance of a plan and the rumour is that is because the Johnson government don’t have one.

    But that is not surprising because for the past 30 years of Euroscepticism and 4 years of heated Brexit debate no leaver has ever come up with a coherent and rational plan that fills the criteria of making us better off than we were as members of the EU.
     
  20. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    The Brexit stance in a nutshell (because its nuts)

    First up the Brexit government are reneging on what was decided and signed up to only a few months ago after three years of negotiations because leavers didn’t know what they were doing then and still don’t.

    Just repeating Canada style over and over doesn’t help if it’s clear your really don’t know what it means – experts on the subject seem to think this is a rather difficult and complex deal to broker as it involves going through each economic sector and deciding in detail what would attracts tariffs and quotas and what not and to which degree. That is why such deals take years.

    But this Brexit government say they want it basically tied up by June (in 4 months) or they will walk away.

    And at the same time they still seem to be talking of having there cake and eating it – they seem to be suggesting that they want ‘free trade’ with the EU while not having to follow any EU rules on free trade or regulations or arbitration.

    And to add extra complexity they wish to have separate agreements for fishing and the financial sector

    Oh and everything the EU has suggested is unfair and unjustifiable

    To me this doesn’t seem like serious negotiation it seems to be more about giving leavers the headlines they want.
     

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