Brexit

If that were actually true, besides in real life, getting out there protesting, writing to your politicians etc

....when it comes to online, shouldn't you at least be writing all this on a UK forum, or at least a forum with a lot more UK members

As I asked you like 50 pages ago, who exactly here is your audience? Lucky if we have 1/2 dozen UK members, most of them leavers.

So, at most your audience here is 2 people.

Driftrue is correct, this thread is horrible. I find it a bit perculiar you have put so much effort in the last 3 years, and at best swayed 2 people maybe

 

Strikes me as pathetically insecure : )

 

VG

LOL – I’m sure I’m not the only person that’s noticed that you are unable to actually give any answers to the questions posed.

And that is the point of this thread that Brexit is a dumb idea and that the people giving it support can’t defend it in any rational or reasonable way.

 

But there's no one listening

 

VG

LOL

You’re here but I don’t know why seeing as you can’t answer the questions

I mean you pop up in Brexit threads shit on the carpet and then go, what is you purpose?

You haven’t a clue

You only every reveal you ignorance

You haven’t any answers

You have no solutions

You….oh i could go on but what’s the point of you.

 

And replies like that are why no one else is bothering

Surely there are UK forums where hundreds are debating such matters

 

VG

You mean post that point out the truth – yes I can see why leavers wouldn’t want to bother with them – they might actually learn something and they wouldn’t like that.

So again what is the point of you?

 

There is still no one Brexit

Just today listening to the radio I heard several different types of Brexit been mentioned, the Norway version came up again as did the Canada and another which was a new one on me which was the Australian, there was also use of those rather vague terms ‘Hard Brexit’ and ‘Soft Brexit’ again.

So can anyone tell me which version ALL LEAVERS voted for in 2016?

And does anyone know which version we are going to get?

 

Brexit is a combination of the words British and Exit (the EU)

Since that happened 31 st January 2020

It's time to close this thread

 

VG

LOL As I’ve said your ignorance is towering and your capacity to not learn seemingly infinite

Brexit is ongoing as we are still in the transition period

I mean to all intents and purposes everything is still in place,

We are still trading as we were before,

We are still in the EU customs union and single market,

All the rules and regulations are the same

We can still travel as before in the EU

The right to live and work in the EU and vice versa is still in place.

The European Court of Justice will also continue to have the final say over any legal disputes

And we continue to contribute to the EU budget.

*

The only thing that has really changed is that the UK has lost its ability to have a say in what the EU does, as one leaver MEP complained that means for example we have no voice in the EU fisheries committee while it still regulating UK waters.

That is the transition period, it means we are not a member of the EU but we are still part of the EU

 

Well, you are quite welcome to call it something else and start another thread, but Brexit has been and gone. Time to close this thread

 

Brexit is still ongoing so it’s still is Brexit it’s not something else so a Brexit thread is still a Brexit thread -

 

Brexit is a process

Ok there seems to be some confusions about Brexit and it should be remembered that it is a process not something with a definitive end, because it has to be remembered that Brexit was never (and still isn’t) defined.

Some what to say it is just the UK leaving the EU, but to me that is just one stage as the ramifications of leaving the EU are part of Brexit, her are what I see as the stages of Brexit

Stage One – the mistake

This was the demand for a referendum, the campaign and the vote.

In my opinion many people had already been softened up by years of anti-EU propaganda, migrant scaremongering and bamboozled by the lies of the leaver’s leadership.

Stage Two -the easy bit

The withdrawal agreement was meant to be the easy bit and not meant to take that long.

Stage Three – the hard bit

The thing every analysts thought would and will be the hard bit - getting a trade agreement and few thought/think it will be as good as the one we had.

The least disruptive routes would be ‘soft’ style Brexits, basically what we have in the transition period we get the benefits of been in the EU but would have to follow its rules and have no say over them and possibly pay in more than we did as a member.

The further we get away from alignment the harder the deal will be to broker and that means the longer it will take to negotiate. A Canada type deal has been mooted but that took several years to put together.

The no-deal scenario is a misnomer as we would actually still need to negotiate a deal it’s just that we would have caused a whole load of mess walking away from the table, it’s like turning over a board game half way through then saying you want to finish the game so that everyone has to find all the cards pick up all the pieces and put them back where they were before etc, it’s a move that is likely to piss off the other players.

Dropping to WTO rules would be very problematic for the UK economy.

Stage Four – dealing with the world

Now some of this could be done during stage three but a lot of this is dependent on the outcome of stage three so that most of it will probably come after it.

Some look to a US deal but the indications are that they want the UK to basically unhook themselves for alignment with the EU27 and hook up to a US alignment. One person I know said this would make us into the 51st state, but someone else pointed out we would be more like Porto Rica, controlled by US policy but with no say in it.

Different time frames have been put on the length of this stage from 5 years to over 50 years

Stage Five – Was it worth it

Remember it was Jacob Rees-Mogg who pointed out that “We will not know the full economic consequences (of Brexit) for a very long time, we really won’t.” when pushed he said that we might not know for another 50 years. Others have put it at longer.

So the last stage of Brexit is basically an evaluation of Brexit.

Although it might end before that stage if people realise it was a big mistake and ask to re-join the EU.

 

There will be checks at borders and loads more paperwork.

One of the arguments about why it would be bad for the UK to leave the EU was that it would make trading with our main trading partner (the EU27) more cumbersome and difficult as it would mean more paperwork and checks on the borders.

But leavers told us that was silly that little would change and it has been official government policy up till now that there would be no extra checks at the borders.

So another Brexit lie is revealed

When did Brexit go from been a wonderful thing that would make Britain a greater and more prosperous country to something that we can survive with some Dunkirk spirt and leavers telling us that all the pain it will cause will be worth it….one day.

Once leavers swore on their mothers grave that there would be no pain only jam, flowers and £350 million at week for the NHS.

To me Brexit was always a polished turd that those wanting it bamboozled many into thinking it was gold I’m just surprised many leavers are still wanting it when it stinks of shit.

I ask again can ANY leavers explain in a rational way why Brexit is going to be a good thing for the UK and its people.

 

The leavers still haven’t a clue what to do.

As remains have kept on saying over the last few years –leavers didn’t seem to have a clue what they were doing

First there were all the differing versions of Brexit many seemingly incompatible with each other

Then there was the lack of detail there were lots of superlatives banded around by leavers about how wonderful, brilliant fantastic Brexit would be but there was little detail nothing seemed thought through or planned.

I even had leavers get very annoyed at me for even asking about detail.

But the lack of any coherent or rationally worked out plan for Brexit or even some thought been put into what it might mean was the major stumbling block for leavers to actually explain why they thought Brexit would be good for Britain and its people because while there was lots of information’s and analysis pointing out how bad it could be there was nothing on the plus side except vague platitudes and jingoistic hope.

Anyway today we learned the leavers still haven’t a clue – they are throwing out ideas that clearly won’t fly or admitting that the mad hopes they had were so clearly unworkable that they could only have been uttered by the criminally delusional or liars.

It seem they were putting forward some mad scheme that would give special treatment to the UK’s financial services sector that only could be described as ‘having our cake and eating it’ it seems to have basically been an open ended transition period for UK financial services while still taking out the UK from the customs union and single market. It would be like part of the UK economy remaining part of the EU while other parts been out of the EU a kind of half Brexit, a horcrux of a Brexit.

As Michel Barnier has already warned Sajid Javid and Boris Johnson “they should not kid themselves” that Brussels will give such a deal to the City of London.

And it raise the question that if such a “permanent equivalence” is so good for the financial services why isn’t it for the rest of the country.

 

The leavers still haven’t a clue what to do. Part Two

Brexit is a huge change a really really big deal that was always going to massively change things

So you would expect that those pushing for it would have given it some thought – sat down and worked out a plan –got some experts in to fresh out the details – worked out what need to be done and how much it might cost.

Or you could push for Brexit not knowing what it mean and once you had it - not know what to do.

The Brexiteers went with the second option and now literally don’t know what to do, they are trying to make plans on the fly and working out that all the warnings they were given are turning out to be true.

They were warned it would mean checks at the borders – they said there would be no checks at the boarders – there is going to be checks at the borders

They were warned it would mean more red tape – they said there would be less red tape – there is going to be more red tape

They were warned we would be a worse deal – they said we would get a better deal – there is going to be a worse deal

 

Dominic Cummings is setting himself up as the main power in the country.

He has basically engineer a chancellor who stood up to him so he could be replaced with a puppet and he will now have not just control of No10 but No11 as well.

Funny that now most of the UK policy decisions are in the hands of an unelected bureaucrat but that is Brexit for you – the imaginary was an abomination while the reality is a triumph of ‘common sense’.

Dominic wants to spend money he know Brexit will be bad for the economy so he wishes to spread some cash around so that the cracks aren’t noticed (or at least not by the Brexit base).

It’s about a left leaning even socialist belief in spending for a nationalistic Brexit end, an emphasis on big projects (like HS2* and autobahns or maybe not the second) as well as local worth projects like more buses and cycle lanes.

* That emply a lot of people and give the ability to funnel money to donars through the awarding of contracts.

Let’s see a combination of socialism and nationalism I wonder what you could call that LOL

 

Where are all the trade deals?

I remember Brexit people telling me that trade deals were easy and that we would have loads in place by the time we relinquished our membership of the EU.

Some said that countries would be banging down our door wanting to have trade deals. That we would have so many deals and deals that were much better than any of the deals we had as part of the EU that we would be able to make up for all the loss of the trade with the EU and could basically tell them to sod off.

But we have now stopped been a member of the EU and we have only a few trade deals and none of them are in any way better than what we had before I think all of them are cut and paste of what we had before through the EU and those only amount, I believe, to representing around 8% of total UK trade.

Many countries seem to be holding off from negotiations to see what happens with the UK/EU deal and other like the US and Australia seem to be prioritising deals with the EU before ones with the UK – there does not seem to be any banging down of doors but there does seem to be some polite knocking at a door but that door seems to be the EU’s, not Britain’s.

The worrying thing

If you have ever lived in a country where there was haggling or even if you’ve been involved in a tendering process you will basically see the underlying principles of a trade deal.

It’s about getting what is best for you or your company at the expense of the other player.

And you have less power if you are in the weaker position.

In very simple terms if you are in the desert and running out of water then the lone water seller can charge you as much as they can and you either pay up or walk away and die.

Most economic analysts think that the UK is going to be increasingly desperate for trade deals as the effects of Brexit hit.

Other nations have not just done damage to their economies they don't need to rush into anything, but the UK has they could just be waiting to see how desperate the UK gets.

 

Where are the benefits that Brexit will bring?

Boris and co have brought out their Brexit immigration plan – and I should not have been surprised but yes more lies.

Brexit has basically warped everything, to make any of it seem worthwhile they have to lie.

No one pushing Brexit can be honest about Brexit because if you are honest about Brexit it make it oh so clear that it is crap.

The proposed immigration policy seems mainly aimed at keeping out so called ‘low skilled workers’ from the EU, this was a concern of many people but basically due the lies and misrepresentation of the right wing and its media supporters that liked to blame migrants to the UK for low wages and lack of jobs.

The problem is that it wasn’t ‘too many’ Europeans it was UK neoliberal policies that favoured limiting workers’ rights and squeezing benefits.

Also many of the ‘low skilled’ jobs already have vacancies they could already be applied to by British born workers and the unemployed.

Now in the past the government has used the technique of the job centre offering a job and if you refuse your benefits are cut and if you get sacked from that job you have become ‘wilfully unemployed’ and so get your benefits cut.

Is that how they are going to force people to fill the labour shortage gap?

So employees are going to lose workers that have actual sort the job and so are presumable enthusiastic to be there for workers that are only there because they have to be. Also some people are not suited to some jobs (I’m thinking of the care sector).

Anyway when asked about the labour shortage the policy is likely to might bring about the home secretary produced another lie that there are 8.5 million people looking for work when actually that figure was made up of ‘2.3 million students and 2.1 million long-term sick, as well as more than 1.1 million who are retired and 1.9 million who are looking after their family or home. Fewer than 1.9 million of the total were recorded as wanting a job’.

Social care providers were loudest in their warnings about the blow the new immigration rules would deal to their sector, migrants make up around 17 per cent of staff in adult social care (40 per cent in London) and there are supposedly more than 120,000 unfilled vacancies in this sector in the UK anyway.

Now the places with the highest unemployment rates are in the North of England, but most of the jobs that will be effected by this migration policy (agriculture, hospitality, construction and adult social care) are in the more southern areas of the UK (look at the 40% for adult social care workers in London).

So are a lot of the unemployed in the north going to be forced to relocate to the south where house prices and rents are the highest?

Sorry but such policies might go down well with the Daily Mail but seem ill though through and at odds with the real world.

 

The USSR?