Brexit

VG

It seems to me that prattling on about the Labour Party is just a way of evading all the outstanding questions you haven’t answered and the criticisms of your views that remain unaddressed.

Ok let’s just remind you of one - why do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

 

Kind of a red flag if Trump supports someone

 

NO NO NO Vanilla.
Let's keep him.
He is the key to The Conservatives getting back in power so as to implement our NO DEAL EXIT WITH BREXIT.
That lying useless Clown will cost them BIG TIME.
Thank goodness.

Cheers.

 

Round and round and round and round in fucking circles with you Bulby.
Have you learned absolutely NUTHIN' from our lectures to you?
Or are you always going to stay as uneducated on this matter thick as pig poo?

Just sayin'
With no offence meant of course.

 

Booze

Lecture suggests some type of knowledge or insight but you have never shown any

Booze I love your posts highlight the many of the types of people still attracted to Brexit – racist, brutish, mean of spirit and petty.

You are a gift to a remainer like me and LOL the funniest thing is that they don’t even realise it.

 

Yellowhammer

So Parliament forced the government to publish the details of Operation Yellowhammer and it is just as bad as the leaked report that many newspapers published earlier, disruption to freight, shortages of some food and medicine possible civil unrest

Brexit: no-deal chaos fears as secret Yellowhammer papers published

The leaked document was described as a “base case”; but the new document claims to be a “worst-case scenario”.

These kind of things are useful you complied the available dates and work out from that what might happen so you can mitigated against it, it’s a risk assessment. The thing is that it’s clear from the reports that even with mitigation the effects of a no-deal Brexit would be serious to severe. This is a long way from what those pushing for leave were promised during the Brexit campaign

First the possibility of a no-deal wasn’t even on the table, they all said we would get a deal, a good deal, a great deal. There would be no down side to Brexit it would be easy to do and people wouldn’t even notice, until things started to become much better those fabled ‘sunny uplands’.

This seems a long way from there with no deal leavers admitting things might be bad but that we will pull through it with our ‘Blitz spirit’, without pointing out that we didn’t vote to be bombed, thousands died in those bombings and, by the way, where did the sunny uplands go?

Now this is the emergency planning for a no deal Brexit but I presume (and hope) that the civil service has also been commissioned to compile other scenarios for all types of Brexit to see if any of them actually benefit the UK, I think those should also be published for public viewing.

 

Thank you for the compliments Bulby.
No offence taken by me of course.
It's all just part of this lovely game of chess called:
Brexit.

Soon for us it will be.

CHECKMATE!

 

This was released by the Times a month ago, nothing new

Recall urged after no-deal Brexit papers released

"Defence Secretary Ben Wallace added "lots of measures" were being taken to reduce risks, and the chancellor had "opened his chequebook" for greater no-deal spending."

So you are going to get a nice little boost in government spending


"The Yellowhammer file, which is redacted in parts and almost identical to a version leaked to the Sunday Times last month , says a no-deal Brexit could lead to:

• a "decrease" in certain types of fresh food and "shorter supply" of key ingredients
• price rises for food and fuel, which would "disproportionately" affect those with low incomes
• "disruption lasting up to six months" potentially affecting medicines and medical supplies
• protests and counter-protests across the UK
• lorries waiting for more than two days to cross the English Channel"

Yawn, 6 months of "disruptions" while they work out better trade deals and you get you countrys liberty and autonomy back. Sounds like a good deal


You import most of your medicines from the US anyway

Any tax on food and fuel is regressive, affects the poor more than the rich. Your ridiculous VAT of 20% has been doing this for decades

"He (Wallace) told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the planning document only showed what might happen "if the government didn't do anything about it"."

The document is only a set of scenarios If the government doesnt do anything

You are headed for a no deal brexit, a few months later everything will be better than normal, you'll have the Tories in power for another 7 years and you will start to see the collapse of the European Union of Socialist Republics

 

Every indication is that any form of Brexit is going to hurt the county I love and cause many of its people harm but there are people that cheer that on, something that they cannot defend in any rational way think that hurt and that pain is funny.

I was talking to someone from another country the other day and he said that he thought the British had gone mad – well I had to point out only some of them, the ones chackling while their country suffers.

 

VG

What liberty or autonomy are you talking about?

Again - why [beyond wishful thinking] do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

To repeat I think the big problem with you is that you don’t seem to be motivated by a desire to seek out rational answers no your motivation seems to be based on an irrational dislike of ‘socialism’ that seems to be skewing your thinking and makes it seemingly impossible for you to understand or accept any rational points that are made that don’t fit in with his own biases.

 

I don’t often paste whole articles but once and awhile…

The insidious ideology pushing us towards a Brexit cliff-edge

By George Monbiot

At first sight it’s incomprehensible. Why risk everything for a no-deal Brexit? Breaking up their own party, losing their parliamentary majority, dismantling the UK, trashing the economy, triggering shortages of food and medicine: how could any objective, for the Conservative and Unionist party, be worth this? What good does it do them?

Yes, some people will benefit. To judge by recent donations to the Conservative party, some very rich people approve of Boris Johnson’s policies. A no-deal Brexit might favour hedge funds that thrive on uncertainty, financiers seeking to short the pound, vulture capitalists hoping to mop up cheap property if markets collapse. But the winners are likely to be greatly outnumbered by the losers, among whom are many powerful commercial interests.

We make a mistake when we assume that money is the main motivation. Our unreformed, corrupt and corrupting political funding system ensures it is an important factor. But what counts above all else is ideology, as ideology successfully pursued is the means to power. You cannot exercise true power over other people unless you can shape the way they think, and shape their behaviour on the basis of that thought. The long-term interests of ideology differ from the short-term interests of politics.

This, I believe, is the key to understanding what is happening today. The Brexit ultras in government are not just Brexit ultras. They are neoliberal ultras, and Brexit is a highly effective means of promoting this failed ideology. It’s the ultimate shock doctrine, using a public emergency to justify the imposition of policies that wouldn’t be accepted in ordinary times. Whether they really want no deal or not, the threat of it creates the political space in which they can apply their ideas.

Neoliberalism is the ideology developed by people such as Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman. It is not just a set of free-market ideas, but a focused discipline, deliberately applied around the world. It treats competition as humanity’s defining characteristic, sees citizens as consumers and “the market” as society’s organising principle. The market, it claims, sorts us into a natural hierarchy of winners and losers. Any attempt by politics to intervene disrupts the discovery of this natural order.

It was embraced by Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan and most subsequent governments. They sought to implement the doctrine by cutting taxes, privatising and outsourcing public services, slashing public protections, crushing trade unions and creating markets where markets did not exist before. The doctrine was imposed by central banks, the IMF, the Maastricht treaty and the World Trade Organization. By shutting down political choice, governments and international bodies created a kind of totalitarian capitalism.

It has failed on its own terms, and in many other ways. Far from creating general prosperity, growth has been slower in the neoliberal era than it was in preceding decades, and most of its fruits have been gathered by the rich. Far from stimulating an enterprise economy, it has created a gilded age for rent-seekers. Far from eliminating bureaucracy, it has created a Kafkaesque system of mad diktats and stifling control. It has fomented ecological, social, political, economic and financial crises, culminating in the 2008 crash. Yet, perhaps because its opponents have not produced a new, compelling story of their own, it still dominates our lives.

Unsurprisingly, people have reacted to the closure of political choice and the multiple disasters it caused. But because neoliberalism, in broad terms, was adopted not only by the right, but also by the Democrats, New Labour and similar parties, there were few places to turn. Many people responded with nationalism and nativism. The new politics that Boris Johnson’s government represents incorporates both neoliberalism and the reaction to it. The glitter-eyed essentialists on the frontbenches – such as Dominic Raab, Liz Truss and Sajid Javid – still seek to implement the ideology in its most extreme form. The opportunists, such as Johnson, Michael Gove and Priti Patel, appeal to those who seek scapegoats for the disasters it has created.

Johnson uses neoliberal framing to justify his attacks on public safety. He wants to pull down environmental standards, create free ports in which businesses can avoid tax and regulation, and strike a rapid trade deal with the United States that is likely to rip up animal welfare rules and threaten the survival of the NHS.

He rages against red tape, but the real red tape is created by the international trade treaties he favours, that render democratic change almost impossible, through rules that protect capital against popular challenge, and shift decision-making away from parliaments and into unaccountable offshore courts (“investor-state dispute settlement”). This explains the enthusiasm among some on the left for Brexit: a belief that escaping from the EU means escaping from coercive trade instruments. In reality, it exposes us to something even worse, as the UK enters negotiations with the US, holding a begging bowl.

Now, as the professor of political economy Abby Innes argues, neoliberalism has reached its Brezhnev phase: “ossification, self-dealing, and directionless political churn”. Like Leninism, neoliberalism claims to be an infallible science. Its collision with the complexities of the real world has caused political sclerosis of the kind that characterised the decline of Soviet communism. As a result, “the only way to complete this revolution today is under cover of other projects: Brexit is ideal”.

The creation of emergency is the inevitable destination of an absolutist, failed system. But emergency also provides the last means by which the failed system can be defended and extended.

 

You can catch George Monibiots TED talk here:

Transcript of "Neoliberalism's time has passed. We need a new politics of belonging"

Where he says the world Neoliberalism a few times, rants for 15 mins, but doesnt actually say anything, of course never gets into specifics

Much like the article you quoted above


"This, I believe, is the key to understanding what is happening today. The Brexit ultras in government are not just Brexit ultras. They are neoliberal ultras, and Brexit is a highly effective means of promoting this failed ideology"

Now if ones aim is to convince those on the leave/remain fence against leaving. How on earth is a paragraph like that going to convey that message?

The paragraph says brexit is a means for neoliberals in government to push their ideology, and this is the key for understanding whats happening today....before you have actually brexited.

Without actually naming who he is referring to, because as soon as he does, those on the fence tune out because then itd just a the Tories are cunts speech

The article or speech, there is nothing in there for the common man in the street to grab on to.

Earlier today, I entered "brexit" into google search to see the latest news, and that same article from the guardian came up in the first three search results, because its dated so recent

Thats all you did, didnt you, a quick google search, pick the headline most negative close to the top, copy and paste, probably without understanding it

 

How about just discussing the topic at hand, rather than carrying on like a child

Yellowhammer isnt exactly new news and people are just going to expect the government to do worst case scenario planning

Boris just pretty much sabotaged his own party for the sake of Brexit, perfect time for Labour to pounce.

And yet still Labour manage to come off sounding wishy washy, mah mah mah mah mah maybe we should resume parliament so we can over analyse yellowhammer rather than offering any solutions ourselves

 

VG

Well the article does I think presume a bit of background knowledge on neoliberalism by the way did you do any of the reading I suggested on neoliberalism? The book A brief history of neoliberalism by David Harvey for example?

Sorry mate but I actually read newspapers one of which is the Guardian.

Are you saying you only get your information from the internet?

*

Anyway are you going to completely ignore all the outstanding questions and criticisms?

Anyway once again - - why [beyond wishful thinking] do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

 

No, no no it doesnt

" vulture capitalists hoping to mop up cheap property if markets collapse"

If your property market collapses, no one is going to "mop up" in the short term

This guy is an idiot

Guys like David Harvey make their living off guys like you. Who do you think it is buying his books? Guys at mid/ high level working in the finance sector Noooooooo

 

VG

Ok so just so we get this straight – you are unwilling or unable to address all the outstanding criticisms of you view or any of the unanswered questions – so you are just going to ignore them

Come on man you must be able to answer this - - why [beyond wishful thinking] do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

 

I dont see an outstanding criticisms of my view except from yourself

You being the author of this:

"VG

OK so to reply in simple terms but all covered in more detail elsewhere (you just have to go back and read it).

Hard boarder – disruption to trade – disruption to ‘just in time’ manufacturing – encourages companies to move

Negotiating trade deals is better form a position of power and influence which Brexit has already diminished and will do hugely if it goes through especially with a hard Brexit. They can take years.

Regulations most of the people pushing for Brexit are right wing neoliberals that wish to get rid of regulations that stand in the way of profits but are detrimental to most people, like environmental and workers’ rights regulations. For export reasons we will need to keep and follow the regulations for products we sell to the EU.

The government proposed WTO tariff schedules would be disastrous for a lot of UK companies and make the negotiating of trade deals harder.

I don’t believe any country on earth does trade solely through WTO"

 

VG

Ok so that is a big YES then?

Because you are unwilling or unable to address all the outstanding criticisms of you view or any of the unanswered questions – you are just going to ignore them


This is the think I get time after time when trying to discuss Brexit with leavers – first they seem incredibly ill informed and unwilling to be so and second they just ignore anything that doesn’t fit in with what they believe.

 

I agree, many were, although I would use the word misinformed . Many in my home town played the race card , in order to prevent more Eastern Europeans moving in and taking up some of the jobs and social housing . My OH voted to leave for this very reason as her job was under pressure . For the record I am a remainer. So we had a few interesting discussions over dinner ! Some of these leavers didn't feel that the potential damage to the economy would be enough to deter them. Many of these I think have short memories about the damage done in the last recession with many jobs lost through companies folding or cutting back, certainly in my own area . At least in the last recession we didn't have a shortage of food and medicines.

I think we are all in for a very bumpy ride medium term. A least I can't be blamed for it.

 

So, your whole argument is leavers are racist

A reminder of the referendum map



By the logic all leavers are racist, that would mean Scotland is the least racist part of the country, which we all know is pfffft!

Its just a desperate argument from remainers that just doesnt stand up to the facts