Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by BlackBillBlake, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Booze

    But can you explain why?
     
  2. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    It's clearly not objective. It's an empty retort that basically says 'i feel adressed by that criticism but don't like it, so im just gonna turn it around without any in depth argument' :p

    Fact of the matter is many Brexit voters and supporters are ok with a hard brexit. They just want out, no matter what. This is because they think they're being controlled more by the EU then their own opportunistic politicians.
    If you read this thread its clear who backs up their stances and arguments and who doesn't.
     
    BlackBillBlake likes this.
  3. Rots in hell

    Rots in hell Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,133
    Likes Received:
    7,213
    To Repeat - My response was NOT to defend my beliefs ( re Brexit ) It was a reaction to your attitude concerning leave voters !! and your still doing it "no reason for people to be ignorant " !! Yes I can Google as fucking well as you can but google is opinion based as much as it is fact ! You still cant believe people want to leave the EU Fair enough But a lot of us cant believe anyone would be stupid enough to remain in so we will have to agree to disagree ! BUT we are not idiots as you two keep trying to imply Hence my reaction


    And if you had read what I said instead of jumping to conclusions I wouldn't have to repeat It here
     
  4. Boozercruiser

    Boozercruiser Kenny Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    6,415
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    In essence I was referring to the fact that I was in agreement with what Mallyboppa was saying here looking back a little while at some of the various posts Mall made.
    I an a late joiner to this thread, and it is possible that I have lost some of the plot!

    To be clear in respect of me though.
    I am FOR Brexit.
    It's The Brexit Party for me, and I have great admiration for Nigel Farage, who is yet again being instrumental in bringing about electoral change and shaking up the status quo.
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Booze

    But can you explain why?

    Can you explain why?

    But can you explain why?
     
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Mal

    Sorry but this is important, people might agree to disagree over which breakfast cereal is best or if they like Star Wars more than the MCU, but this is going to hurt my country, myself and above all my child.

    Do you really not get that?

    Thing is I and others have explained why we think Brexit is a bad idea you haven't refuted those things and you have put forward stuff that has been criticised but you refuse to address the criticisms.

    You seem to be pumping out the leaver propaganda but you don’t seem to have given it much thought or questioned it and when asked to discuss it you refuse.

    You say you could do research, but have you?

    You think my views are stupid, that’s fine, then explain why you think they’re stupid in a rational and reasonable way and address the outstanding criticisms of your stance.

    Because so far you seem unable to do that and if you can’t shouldn’t you be asking yourself why you can’t?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    Asmodean and BlackBillBlake like this.
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    To leave or remain in the EU is probably the most important decision this country has taken since World War II. If is going to have economic effects (that have already begun) and that in turn will have social ramifications, it could even break up the union.

    But it seems to me that many are giving it little thought, I’ve talked to people that just reply with ‘just get out’ asked what they think will happen and they repeat ‘just get out’.

    For the last thirty odd years a certain section of the elite have been pushing the Eurosceptic line and both political parties of the left and right have often blamed ‘Brussels’ for problems in the UK that were actually the fault of their own policies.

    This drip, drip, drip of poison from the right wing media and cowardly politicians have resulted in many believing on a guttural level that all the problems of the UK stem from our membership of the EU, but asked them for specifics to use their head to explain their feelings and they can’t.

    The belief in ‘bad’ EU laws been forced on the UK, of unelected bureaucrats controlling Britain and billions been sent to Europe for no return are so ingrained as to be seen as ‘common sense’ by many, although none of them can name a ‘bad’ law, few could explain the structures of the EU or have an understanding of trade, tariffs or the amount of money we actually pay in and get out.

    It seems to me that many are going into Brexit even a hard Brexit with their eyes and ears closed.
     
  8. Boozercruiser

    Boozercruiser Kenny Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    6,415
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Hi Balbus.
    With respect I have not got the time or energy to explain why I was in agreement with Mallyboppa.
    It should be pretty obvious anyway really.
    In order to try and save myself a lot of time in respect of Brexit and Nigel Farage please look at the thread I started with link below.
    If you read the thread, your questions will be answered.

    I Have Just Joined THE BREXIT PARTY!

    -------

    But just a quote from it here tells you a lot anyway:

    Everyone in the UK at least will know what this is, and I accept this subject can be very emotive.
    I could go on a long rant about BREXIT, but I will try to avoid that..
    I just want OUT of the EU and in the forthcoming EU elections my Wife and I will both be voting for THE BREXIT PARTY.
    This is the only party were OUT MEANS OUT and LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!
    I have had enough of lying toe rags Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn and most of the rest of the Houses Of Parliament mostly for remain MPs who wouldn't know what democracy was about if they fell over it.

    Remember this:

    BREXIT MEANS BREXIT?
    NO DEAL IS BETTER THAN A BAD DEAL?
    LEAVE MEANS LEAVE?
    ETC. ETC. ETC. BLA BLA HEFFING BLA

    A plague on all their houses I say.
    THE BREXIT PARTY just might help bring about us getting out of the dratted bureaucratic and slimey cocoon EU.
    After all.
    It is an absolute fact that we wouldn't have had the IN/OUT referendum vote at all if it wasn't for Nigel Farage.
     
  9. new Athenian

    new Athenian Members

    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    207
    The British people spoke loudly on the evening of June 23,2016 after the votes of a near 3/4 of eligible voters said leave which means LEAVE !
    They did not mean leave in ten years ( it's been three already ),
    They did not mean partial withdrawal,
    They did not mean hold another referendum to see if voters were really serious,
    They did not mean negotiate legislate and otherwise flush the wishes of British citizens down the tubes of bureaucratic delay.

    What they did mean is LEAVE !
    What they did mean is we want our sovereignty back.
    What they did mean is it's time for the British people to govern their own affairs once again.
    What they did mean is we and we alone will decide what's best for Britain.

    The despicable way in which the incumbent government has handled Brexit clearly illustrates it's secret desire to overrule the vote of June 23, 2016.
    The people demanded action and it's action they deserve in order that Britain may get on with the business of governing itself once again .

    Treason May's days are numbered and she will leave office a complete failure with one of the most dismal records of any PM in that great nations entire history and why one might ask is this so? It's true namely because she never personally believed Brexit should happen in the first place yet she promised to abide by the people's wishes initially as she proceeded to stab them in the back at every turn as time progressed .
    What a sorry spectacle the British people have been forced to endure !

    It's my wish that now the voices of the Britain's everywhere will roar mightily and crush the naysayers once and for all !
    Even those who did not initially support Brexit should be incensed at the tawdry and shameful way the incumbent government has attempted to deceive and deny the wishes of those citizens who delivered a victory for Brexit in 2016.

    At the end of the day any government that is willing to roll over the wishes of it's citizenry on this issue has no respect for it's people in the first place !
     
    Boozercruiser likes this.
  10. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    It looks like that to you (or better said; you put it as such) because they're the main 2 ones sharing their in depth thoughts on this subject here. You mainly come in here to make some basic statements and then react butthurt when those people say we already know and ask why you think it. But those 'circle jerkers' are actually interested in what you really have to say (which to be fair seems not much)
     
  11. Rots in hell

    Rots in hell Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,133
    Likes Received:
    7,213
    They are interested in what "They" have to say that's all !

    Don't want to get dragged back into a debate about it I have better thing to do
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  12. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Messages:
    50,556
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    Lol and sigh. You really got nothing else than misportray the people who disagree with you on this huh.
    No, they're interested in what everybody has to say. If it's more than just a basic and repeated statement. The pro brexit folks (including you) don't have much to say here it seems. Which in return makes it seem smart to you to portray peeps like BBB and Balbus enjoy talking to themselves. Your replies only make this more clear.
    Your best posts on this matter were when you were pressured to expand on your thoughts. But you rarely do that (understandable, nobody likes to be proved wrong in an in depth discussion :p)
     
  13. Rots in hell

    Rots in hell Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,133
    Likes Received:
    7,213
    Not in the Least Butthurt By anything on Here
     
  14. Boozercruiser

    Boozercruiser Kenny Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    6,415
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    WOW Athenian.
    You have just said in a very eloquent way better than me exactly what my thoughts are in respect of this Brexit shambles.
    Thank you very much.
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Booze

    Went there - you answer nothing - it’s just a series of inane rants

    So it seems to me that you don’t have a clue why you support Mal’s comments, why you support leaving beyond some simplistic and ill-informed asides and you are really too lazy to give it or them any thought?

    OK I did find this which says all about how much thought you have given this important decision

    Oh like you know the UK is swamped by immigrants REALY what do you base that on? Who are these immigrants you are talking about?

    Why do you think there is not as much social housing around anymore, have you ever given it any thought?

    Is it because the immigrants have stolen them or because of government housing policy based on neoliberal ideas?

    AND STUFF – really that is you in-depth analysis - ‘and stuff’ - and this is meant to prove to me and others that you have given these important issue even a small bit of thought?

    And then you admit again your laziness, how in any way is this supposed to gain you any respect for you position?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  16. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    NA

    But many people were unclear of what leave meant as I’ve said I’ve talked to many and there all have differing versions.

    In what way was British sovereignty taken away

    In what way were they not governing?

    What the fuck are you going on about?

    Again this is just repeating the slogans of the leaver propaganda – I’m asking if you have actually looked into this, have you done any research, have you given it any thought?

    My argument is that many on the leave side are just accepting such leave propaganda without question and replies like this seem to back up what I’m saying.
     
  17. Rots in hell

    Rots in hell Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,133
    Likes Received:
    7,213
    I will try to explain MY reason ! pull it to pieces anyway you want !!
    I was in favour of the common market when we joined but when did it morph into the EU ? Google it and all you get is pro EU propaganda ! Each country has its own government (paid for by the people ) so why do we need an EU Parlament as well (paid for by the people ) whats wrong with countries having their own currency and identity ? The EU is changing all the time to become more controlling (don't try to say its not ! )what was wrong with the common market ? Now there is talk of an EU army , We have an army protecting OUR nation !

    Can you tell me when The EU will stop ? ( that's just one question for you ) As I already said Do what you want with my words but these are my concerns and why I will always be for the UKs exit from the EU !!
     
    Asmodean and Boozercruiser like this.
  18. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Mal

    Oh come on man we have already covered these things, why not address the criticism of your stance rather than just repeat it again?

    The united kingdom joined the "common market " or EEC in 1973 this was a group formed to facilitate trade between countries !

    That is the big problem and the big lie

    We were signing up to the European project, that was understood by many in government and in the UK (myself included) but the right wing establishment prompted it purely as a trade agreement and the lie has stuck.

    As I’ve already noted De Gaulle first vetoed the UK entry because he didn’t think we would be serious about joining up to the European project and I think he was correct.

    *

    The whole idea of the European project was for ‘ever closer union’ “It is found in the Preamble to the 1957 treaty that set up what became the EU [and] on at least six occasions the UK has signed up to it (firstly in becoming a member, and then agreeing to subsequent treaty changes)”
     
  19. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Mal

    Then it wouldn’t be a European Union it would be a return to say a 1930's Europe, with lots of counties competing with each other.

    The UK has its own currency and are you saying that the British people are losing their identity, are the French losing theirs, the Germans the Spanish who and if so why do you think that?

    What are you trying to say?

    But why do you have these concerns what is it you think is going to happen?

    And how and why do you think things are going to better outside of the EU?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  20. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Mal

    As for paying for EU membership well to repeat

    I believe it cost somewhere close to 9 billion

    But let’s put that in context - we spend:

    145 billion on health

    45 billion on defence

    29 billion on transport

    And 13 billion on overseas aid

    We also contribute less (per head of population) than some other EU countries such as Germany.

    For the 9 billion we get all the advantages of free trade with the EU members and with the EU trade deals with none EU countries along with a say in the regulations and policies set by the EU (unlike say Norway).

    Some have put a figure of roughly £31bn-£92bn per year as the best estimate we have in terms of the additional value created to the UK economy through trade as a result of EU membership.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice