Brexit

I wasn't thinking so much about the lot of the ordinary people, but Britain as a player on the world stage and as an economic entity. Undoubtedly, the first world war marked a turning point in the fortunes of the British Empire. By the end the country was deeply in debt to the USA. Britain was rapidly loosing it's position of hegemony in the world. It's a fact that at the high point of empire, we had some really appalling social conditions, and after the slaughter in the trenches a few concessions were made between the wars.
I'm sure you understand that I'm not saying the decline of the empire was a bad thing - just that it has had a big impact on the economic fortunes of the country. The very fact we had the empire is a big factor in the attitude of superiority and hubris that seems to be a feature of the psychology of many in this country.

There was some social progress - mainly after 1945 up to 1980. I certainly wouldn't dispute the damage done by Thatcherism and the rise of neo-liberalism. On the other hand, I'm far from convinced that the left maximized their window of opportunity after WWII. But that's for another thread I think.

In practical terms the damage has been done, most of it during the last few decades. The big question is can the left re-construct itself and once again appeal to the voters. I think it's possible, but it's not going to be easy. The Brexit vote shows that a great many people are very far from politically aware, and are easily manipulated by right wing propaganda and lies.

 

Bill

I agree with your post and I wasn’t criticising the earlier statement just trying to give it another context.

I think you’d really like this article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

It show that at the end of WWII the establishment couldn’t face up to the fact that we were not a ‘first world power’ and preferred to waste our share of the Marshall Plan on keeping up appearances rather than in investment in the countries economic future (although it did help the social one but one needs the other).

And we have been basically doing the same thing ever since, we like to pretend we are meant for the big table, although we really don't have the ability or money to waste on been there, I mean just look at Iraq (on the day the Chilcot report is published) a lot of lives and money thrown away just because Blair wanted Britain to seem important.

 

[SIZE=12pt]Bigotry and the hatred of ‘others’ -of which racism is one type - has long been a trait in British society. Religion has long been the main reason (Catholics, Jews, Muslims) but colour and homosexuality have been other’s. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]We used to burn Catholics, there were [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]British Union of Fascists in the 1930’s and the White Defence League in the 1950’s and gays got abused physically right up to the 1990’s. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Many in the UK like to think we have moved on, but many haven’t but that is overt racism those that will make abusive remarks and daub hateful words on walls. But there are others that are what could be called causal racists and the majority don’t think they are even being racist.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]And they can rationalise their racism ‘I’m not racist but they are claiming our benefits, swamping our NHS, stopping us from getting houses’. Is that racism or genuine concern now in the debate over Brexit its interesting that many of those still cited immigration as a reason for voting out even when told that those concerns were not valid (migrants created not to the country than took out, the NHS ran on migrant workers, migrants were helping build the houses) and above all those things had nothing to do with the EU. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]But what is also telling is that many would go on about other concerns, hearing ‘foreign’ voices on the bus, seeing women in burkas, shops telling ‘foreign’ food. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Is fear of the ‘other’ racism and bigotry?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]What I would say is that fear can be used by the others to manipulate and mould others thinking even to irrational beliefs. [/SIZE]

 

It seems that the political class were unable to accept the facts of history. My own memories of being at primary school in the 60's would tend to conform that view.(later on at secondary school, the whole slant of the history curriculum was more favourable to socialism) We spend a lot of time learning about the Commonwealth, imperial systems of measurement and currency (all of which was scrapped at the end of the decade) and the implication was always that Britain was a 'special' country, a cut above the rest. I think that had become so ingrained in people that it took a long time to die - and in fact still continues in some form even now. My own father was definitely a dyed in the wool imperialist, and I was subject to all those kinds of attitudes as a child. Many people were very definitely in denial about the diminished role of Britain, and the politicians were no exception.
Despite Atley and Co. wasting the Marshall Plan money, I still think they did more for the people than any other government in our history. But due to many factors, they didn't go far enough IMO. They still wanted to play at being an imperial power.

Blair's war is a good example of the UK seeking to punch above its weight - But Chilcot is certainly a different topic from the present one.

 

Chilcot out today and it got me thinking

Some hubristic politicians convinced others to follow them on a foolhardy action through manipulation and outright lies, knowing full well that they had no plan for what happened next while all the experts thought it would end badly.

Iraq and now Brexit

Oh hell and 13 years later the Middle East is in flames and 250 are murdered by a bomb in the centre of Bagdad, stupid policies have consequences - I wonder what Britain will be like in 13 years?

 

Divide and rule.

 

More investors trying to get their money out of Brexit Britian

Funds responsible for investing some £14bn in shopping centres, office blocks and warehouses have now locked out investors following the decision by Henderson, Threedneedle Columbia and Canada Life to suspend dealing on Wednesday after being swamped by investors attempting to redeem their cash.

The three made their announcements after Standard Life, Aviva and Prudential’s M&G barred investors from withdrawing their cash earlier in the week. The suspensions mean that half of all UK retail property funds are suspended, according to calculations by Hargreaves Lansdown, and there were expectations that more would follow.

Another fund Aberdeen Asset Management said it was reducing the dealing price by 17% and would be suspended until Thursday.

[SIZE=12pt]So basically these companies are now going to sell property to pay off the investors that could have a knock on effect and begin a fire sale mentality, I’m hoping someone in the government or bank of England is doing something to try and stop that happening. [/SIZE]

 

Analysts at Deutsche Bank have predicted that the pound will keep falling, and hit $1.15 by the end of 2016. Or worse....







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Mike Bird

✔@Birdyword


Deutsche Bank on their end-2016 $1.15 forecast for £ - "our aggressive forecasts may still be under-stating the level of weakness required."
9:41 AM - 7 Jul 2016

 

This was posted in another thread but fitted here better –

Posted originally by 6 eyed Shaman in the Orlando Thread

The point is that Polish and Irish immigrants have a much easier time integrating themselves into GB than migrants of the Middle East. Poland, Ireland and GB have much more cultural similarities than with any nation in the Middle East.

It's disgusting how the EU is expected to take in all these refugees, when no middle eastern country is willing to take in any. The refugees would be much more likely to integrate themselves into the societies of other more prosperous middle eastern nations. Saudi Arabia has a large air conditioned tent city called Mina that sits empty 360 days of the year, and can house 3 million migrants, but they refuse to take in any refugees. How niggardly is that!?

*

 

6

The problem is that you are connecting this to Brexit and as pointed out we don’t get that many Muslims immigrants from Europe, so coming out of the EU would really do much for that, in fact it might mean we get more, because at the moment most Muslims coming to the UK come from the half of total immigration, the UK government always had control of (mainly from our old imperial possessions) and that is likely to go up if Europeans are not allowed in because we will still need immigrant workers for some time (for reasons already explained)

Also many of those complaining about immigration (even in the British Asian community) were complaining about Poles and other central Europeans coming to Britain.

The problem is that you are connecting this to Brexit and as pointed out in the UK we don’t get that many Muslims immigrants from Europe, so coming out of the EU would really do much for that, in fact it might mean we get more, because at the moment most Muslims coming to the UK come from the half of total immigration, the UK government always had control of (mainly from our old imperial possessions) and that is likely to go up if Europeans are not allowed in because we will still need immigrant workers for some time (for reasons already explained).

Also as a refugee situation it is covered by international law not EU law.

As to countries in the region taking in Syrian refugees

• [SIZE=12pt]Turkey hosts 2.5 million refugees from Syria, more than any other country worldwide[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=12pt]Lebanon hosts approximately 1.1 million refugees from Syria which amounts to around one in five people in the country[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=12pt]Jordan hosts approximately 635,324 refugees from Syria, which amounts to about 10% of the population[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=12pt]Iraq where 3.9 million people are already internally displaced hosts 245,022 refugees from Syria[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=12pt]Egypt hosts 117,658 refugees from Syria[/SIZE]

 

Post referendum some exchanges are offering £1 = €1. Bad news for Brits heading to Europe for holidays. The £/$ rate not much better.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/13/uk-airports-low-exchange-rates-euro-dollar

 

On the other hand: good time to visit England for Europeans Castle hopping :cheers2:

 

Thats Just at Airports They Always Rip You Off ! Anyone would Be stupid To Use Airport Currency Exchanges Brexit or No Brexit The Real Value is 1.18

 

You were down to 1.2521 on the spot price on 16th jun, a week before brexit

- 18 % Those airport traders probably only offering around 1.03 euros anyway

 

Just seen this poster round the corner from my house.

Sums up my feelings, and I think a lot of people are feeling this way.

 

Good job everyone is'nt Then or We would be Fucked !!

You Guys Get over It FFS your like a couple of kids that spit your dummy out


Wait a Minute Yeah your right French cars are Shite

 

I love to travel, but home is home..nothing has changed, and it probably won't!

I changed some cash yesterday, got 1.19 euros, I'm happy with that..

Decided not to cash in my dollars, I will get more using them in America

I love that almost everyone is complaining, nothing has changed!

Ok petrol has gone up, but it's still not as bad as it was 2 years ago, so?

Never been a better time to buy property. So what's up?

 

Brexit hasn't started yet - all we've had is a vote. It's too early by a long way to say what effect it's going to have.

 

I agree, it may not happen! So why are people worried about what might be?
You seem more knowledgeable on this than me, maybe I don't worry enough, I just know people are not so bothered as people around the world, what's happening now?

 

I wouldn't say Britain is shit. It's mixed - there are good things as well as bad. One of the most shit things though is our political system.

Even so, there are many far worse places in the world. Would you want to live in Turkey for instance?