Brexit

Brexit is great! Trump thinks he's gonna make a lot of money with his Turnberry golf course because of it. Yeah, right! The stock markets are crashing...Trump thinks he's gonna scarf there too. He loved it when Wall Street collapsed in 08'...made tons of money on everyone elses loss and misery.

Scotland and Ireland want a divorce from Britain, because they want to be with the EU.

Secretary of State Kerry doesn't know whether to shit of go blind. "Take it easy John, you only have a few months left."

The republicans are already blaming Obama.

 

The thing is the reason that neoliberal right wing politicians and parties hate the EU is that it is more than just a common market; it also has a social and distributive dimension, for example it funds the arts and gives money to deprived areas and to neoliberals that is anti-market behaviour.

The whole immigration and funding the NHS is just lies they say to gain what they wanted, neoliberals like immigration (it drives down prices) and they would like to dismantle the National Health Services and sell it off.

They would like lots of economies competing in a ‘free market’ with little regulation or oversight, that of course brings about conflict as it basically boils down to beggar your neighbour, bringing about the conditions for the rise of nationalism and exploitation.

 

That would be novel, and might reverse the power relations between England and Scotland.

 

Big problem is, Frankfurt has a big head start, and German banks are very strong right now. Have you seen a recent pic of downtown Frankfurt? Too many bank office towers to count.

He may want to play a role in this, but nobody in Europe cares what he thinks.

 

On the subject of the UK having to continually pay to bail out Greece or other Eurozone countries had 'remain' won - Cameron did a deal to protect the UK from exactly that back in 2015.
Only countries in the Eurozone will be paying.
Even if we were staying in the EU, it's extremely unlikely that the UK would have given up the ££ and moved to the Euro.

Old news now but here it is http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33556085

 

Well dude, that's bullshit

 

A clarification for those outside Europe who may not be aware of the structures. The Eurozone is those countries within the EU that have adopted the Euro as their currency. It's not the same thing as the EU. The UK had made it very clear that we had no intention of adopting the Euro long ago, back in the Blair epoch.

Britain really had a golden deal with Europe in some ways - the Europeans had done much to accommodate Britain as a kind of 'special case'.

When Angela Merkel says 'we must not be too nasty to the UK over Brexit', I hope that isn't code for 'let's give them a good kicking'

 

Bill

In many ways it’s in their political interests to give us a good kicking to discourage any others from leaving, I mean if we get a good deal there would be no disincentive to – other out parties in Europe would use that 'hey look there is no downside to leaving'.

[edit] in other words they might be willing to take a economic hit for a political gain.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth there Balbus.

 

Closely related topic...

If the net end result of all this is to shift a considerable amount of power to Frankfurt (assuming money=power) it may cause a lot of people to question the wisdom of allowing German re-unification all those years ago. I was never a fan of the idea. When it comes to matters of such extreme importance, I tend to be in favor of a "two strikes and you're out" rule. Ten years down the road, Germany may finally achieve through financial means what it twice failed to do militarily, which is the absolute domination of Europe. If so, conservative UK voters will be more to blame than anyone else.

Scary thought.

 

I differ in that I was in favour of German re-unification. Otherwise I agree. A northern European slimmed down confederation - they'd probably ditch France, Spain, Italy,and the eastern European countries. They ditch the Euro and they go back to the German Mark. They'd become completely dominant in Europe.
Something along these lines is not unlikely - not immediately perhaps, but give it time.

 

If this is true, then that's totally disgusting

 

I'm afraid they do, I wasn't shocked by the results from the people I live around. The farmers here particularly, and then there's the little welsh towns, not used to change, that have had people moving in from different countries in a fairly short period. Also not used to travelling and seeing more of the world...

Yeah that's been denied ever being said already!!

At the beginning I was all for a second referendum, so disappointed with the results, but it does sound ridiculous, but agree would be great if switched the results.

This is what shocked me the most, particularly Ebbw Vale, so much money building up these towns that would never have had the funding without the EU, and they seemed to be the highest vote out. Perhaps it was through fear, and a need to have more control (or more realistically, the illusion of control).

 

Hmmm, so after free trade the most important aspect of the EU is a "social and distibutive" dimension.

LOL, and what on earth is that?

You all like soccer and you distibute stuff?

Beyond trade tariffs you cant even identify what use the EU is, you just make stuff up.

Which is what I thought. The branding of the EU has existed for long enough that stay voters are all like, "errr yeah, the last 20 yrs have been OKish, so the EU is a good thing, we don't really know why, but we should keep it. Also David Cameron's hair looks a lot better than Boris Johnson's, yeah, so we should listen to him"

 

Van

What you’re kidding aren’t you – honestly you don’t know? You’re on a politics forum trying to discuss politics and you don’t know?

Social – societal – community

Pertaining to society, social provision, the NHS is an example so is welfare, but it’s also about bringing people together so the provision of social areas, transport and the funding of the arts can also come under this as is provision to lessen social exclusion and discrimination.

This is associated with –

Distributive justice

This concerns the nature of a socially just allocation of goods in a society. It is about helping individuals or groups or areas to try and achieve their potential through the distribution of wealth.

What ‘stuff’ have I made up? Can you actually point to something I’ve made up?

Have you read any of the posts in this thread? I mean I’ve explained my views here already; several others have also and the only thing you can think about is David Cameron's hair?

Sorry Van but from your comments so far it’s very hard to take you seriously, as you seem to know little about the politics or history of Europe.

 

You talking Fourth Reich? Seriously? There probably are more far-right white supremacists in the US than there are in Germany.

 

From Richard Branson - not a man I like in particular, but undeniably a savvy businesman

“I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made.”
“I’m afraid that based on misinformation, people voted for Brexit, which is basically voting for a way of shooting themselves in the foot. The last 2 days has been absolute pandemonium worldwide in the markets, the pound crashing, the stock markets crashing, and we are heading rapidly towards a recession again. It’s just too sad, so so sad.
“Businesspeople do not want politicians to completely and utterly wreck the hard work they’ve done for years and years and that is effectively what happened. Thousands and thousands of jobs will be lost as a result of this. Thousands of jobs that would have been created will be lost and the knock-on effect will be so dire.
“The sad thing is I really think Brexiters were misled and did not realise.
People said it was scaremongering. It wasn’t scaremongering and the last 48 hours have proved that.”

 

What is happening? I see that EU is telling to urge the exit and UK seems to want to delay it. What is the truth?

 

I see that Plaid Cymru are talking again about Welsh independence post Brexit. Be interesting to see how that develops.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/its-time-to-put-welsh-independence-on-agenda-leanne-wood

 

The government won't act until they have a new leader - that seems to be the bottom line. They've said they will allow 10 weeks for the selection process, so it seems at present that not much will happen to hasten this unhappy divorce until that gets sorted out.