Brexit: the rotting corpse of a unicorn

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. wilsjane

    wilsjane Members

    It is a complex issue that has allowed our standards to fall.
    Formally ALL building work was authorised and inspected by local authority engineers and surveyors, These people had decades of experience and not a single stone was left unturned.

    The policy of allowing surveyors not chartered within the UK to practice here was largely EU driven, as was the policy of allowing construction companies to appoint their own surveyors, a clear conflict of interest.
    These surveyors produced the reports, so as a result, the local authority simply dealt with the administration without making site visits. This lead to the authorities no longer needing competent staff, so costs were cut and the senior surveyors were often offered a redundancy or early retirement package. Replacing these people today would be near impossible.

    This shambolic mess was the underlying cause of the Grenfel fire.
    We can blame the supplying companies, but they supplied what the customer ordered and no one stopped it. Correctly installed, the cladding would have required around 800 fire barriers, but not a single one was specified, ordered or fitted. The cladding was of the wrong type, but again, the supplier delivered what the customer ordered.
    If you suggested American cladding to me, you would only need to look at a few You-Tube fire videos to see why I would fall off my chair laughing.

    My point is that the EU dictate so much in our everyday life, including air pollution, what crops we produce for export, the types of crops grown and even the curvature of our cucumbers.
    This interference has ALLOWED (not caused) the current shambolic mess and created an environment for the perfect storm.
    Sadly, the residents of Grenfel paid with their lives.

    I do feel very strongly about Grenfel for several reasons. The first was that I could see something like that coming, most frighteningly in a theatre. The second was the close proximity to our home. Lastly, but not least, the 6 months that our daughter spent inside the building following the fire. She still suffers traumatic moments and they will probably haunt her for the rest of her life. Working during the nights after the building became infested with pigeons and rats was horrendous.
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    But you said it wasn’t complex at all - you came right out and used it as a benefit of Brexit - it was the EU’s fault that so many people died - plain and simple.

    Why did that changed? Was it due to the EU or the right wing obsession with outsourcing and privatisation along with the right wing policies of austerity?

    Can you please back this up? In what way do you directly link that to Glenfell?

    [edit] Someone has told me that the UK/EU agreement carries on with the - mutual recognition of professional qualifications (which they thought would includes surveyors)

    [edit] here is the continued UK recognistion of architects form the EU
    The system for recognising EU qualified architects in the UK

    The EU was often trying to get the UK government to improve air quality – are you championing worse air quality?

    UK taken to Europe's highest court over air pollution

    I mean also EU ‘interference’ was also instrumental in improving the quality of UK seas and beaches

    What has the EU ever done for my … beach?

    And what has air pollution and cucumbers got to do with Grenfell.

    Sorry but again you seem to be claiming that but not putting up any evidence

    That sounds terrible and I’m also angry about what happened - but whereas I pointed out there was a lot involved, the council, the companies plus the detrimental effects of state and local government policies of austerity, outsourcing and privatisation – you jumped right in and blamed the EU.

    To me the Grenfell tragedy had nothing to do with our EU membership (and so far you have not shown otherwise) I mean to make it do so you really have to squint at it while wearing blinkers while mumbling some extremely unrelated things about air pollution, cereal crops and cucumbers.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Oh and another view on cucumbers - HuffPost is now a part of Verizon Media

    Well, this story is wrong for three reasons. First and foremost, it is not the European Union that has developed the current standard for cucumbers. It is the UN. Or to be more specific my organization, the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE). In fact, the European Union does not have a specific cucumber standard but traders can refer to the UNECE standard to meet the EU's general marketing requirements. Therefore, don't blame the EU, blame us.

    The second reason is that the standard does not force all cucumbers to be equally straight. It is correct that an Extra Class or Class I cucumber can only bend 1 centimeter for each 10 centimeters. But a Class II cucumber can actually bend 2 centimeters for each 10 centimeters. There are straight cucumbers and not so straight cucumbers.

    But the third and most important reason for why the story is wrong, is because these agricultural standards, covering some than 100 fruits and vegetables, are very useful and widely used. The standards not only facilitate trade, they also help producers get a better price for better quality. Traders in the UK can buy cucumbers from Spain or Morocco, or any other country by simply referring to the standard.
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Again the post by Wilsjane highlights the problem in discussing Brexit in any objective way – the warnings given my those that looked into it (and were then called remoaners and project fear) have on the whole turned out to be correct.

    The UK didn’t get a fantastic trade deal we got a rather thin and mediocre one that if anything favours the EU rather than the UK, we haven’t even ‘got Brexit done’ as the agreements are open ended, short term, open to challenges and not finalised.

    Red tape has expanded greatly for UK businesses and haulers rather than been diminished causing logistical delays. Having an internal customs border within the UK is having the detrimental effects that all professional trade experts predicted.

    I could go on.

    So when leave supporters are asked for the supposed benefits to the UK of this hard-line Brexit they have nothing

    Clearly the Grenfell fire had nothing to do with our EU membership it was a tragedy brought about by purely UK policies and circumstance, but the lie is out there and those desperately seek some reason for Brexit are going to latch onto that because there is little based on reality to do so.

    Those that opposed this mad policy seem to be still getting the same dubiously based arguments that have long been debunked, bendy bananas bendy cucumbers the laws forced on the British people my faceless bureaucrats that turn out to be beneficial to people, the same stuff that didn’t stand up to scrutiny five years ago still been peddled like someone still trying to sell you a fidget spinners as been ‘cool’.
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    When asked to tell us what people have benefited from this hard-line Brexit you said – where do I start

    Well you started with the Grenfell Tower fire – but as seen when looked at there is no evidence of that been connected to EU membership and a lot to do with right wing local and national political policies.

    Now - where do I start – would seem to imply you had a number of what you think of as benefits to this Brexit – have you any that have anything of substance to back them up?
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    So can you answer the question - what have we gained
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Some of the problems that have arisen due to Brexit to are going to be due to teething problems - with new systems - for example people will get better at filling out the paperwork BUT and it’s a big one – the paperwork is not going away.

    Businesses are going to work to absorb the new cost by cutting profits or increasing prices (or stop selling across border) BUT those cost are not going away meaning long term been uncompetitives or reduced profits.

    Brexit has made it more difficult to trade with the EU for most of the UK (Northern Ireland has basically remained in the EU’s customs area while the other parts of the UK have not)

    That is not going to end until we begin to re-join.

    And other things are going to get worse - for example at the moment the UK is not checking goods coming into the UK they are just getting waved through - but the UK can only do that for a limited time as it is against international law so I believe it is due to end in July after that it will become even more difficult to trade across the border.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021 at 2:15 AM
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    What did we win in Brexit?

    Annual £7.5bn cost of EU trade as bad for business as no-deal Brexit

    British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations — as much as they would have done under a no-deal Brexit — the tax office admitted yesterday.

    Jim Harra, chief executive of HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), told MPs that the number of customs forms needed to trade with the European Union under the Brexit deal “is not materially different from a no-deal situation”.

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