Bouncing Bear Raided :(

There are many many companies in operation that DON"T shove their business in the feds faces that DON'T get busted...

This is like being upset that someone got arrested because they slapped a cop across the face...

As for it not being fully illegal... There is a huge difference between having, using and even selling these things, and selling them and challenging the feds to come get you.

You could be selling apples and if you challenged the feds to bust you, they would find (or make something up) to arrest you on.

What does it matter if it is fully illegal when they can come in and confiscate your stock, and tie you up in court for years?

They acted like idiots, and they got busted like idiots... and I have zero sympathy for idiots suffering the consequences of their actions.

 

some these products can be deadly if fallen into the wrong hands... There are literally thousands of other places. Why was BBB so popular, they sold to minors.. der..

 

There is something in court called precedence. This means that the way a case was decided in court will be taken into consideration by the jury - or more importantly judge, which would be important for something like appeals court which is where it could be decided as fully legal or fully illegal.

I'll give you the scenario. Say BBB is found guilty. If they charge joe the cactus grower next, or some dude with an ebay business, the jury, and thereafter an appeals judge, is more likely to find that person guilty because a similar case was already decided. That means that the DEA won't even have to specifically schedule a san pedro for the cactus to become illegal for everyone. That means that anybody who posesses or sells a san pedro could potentially be arrested, and that means no open internet sales and no greenhouse/nursery sales. Once they decide a couple cases with the same verdict, there wouldn't be a contest, anybody caught with one would be thrown in jail.

I'm not trying to incite sympathy for BBB, but there is a bigger picture.

 

calm down bro....i am from teh same country as you, so i read your post fine. if you have beaf with BBB,cool. but you seem to think there is NO MORAL problem with this scenario. you seem to think that if someone dances in front of police and say you cant arrest me, it is OK for them to arrest because they got angry....thats scary....

the moral issue is taht these people can be arrested for selling LEGAL things. it matters not if they shove it in teh dea's face, it matters taht their rights are being trampled adn that people seem to think that is ok.

yet...i suppose you support the gov with the emery situation as well.

i personally dont agree with you, but if thats what you beleive ok. i just think we should not sell out our rights so easily and give up like that. because if i was arrested for selling legal things, whether people like me or not, i would be fucking OUTRAGED.

and you really think that is ok...honestly, you like this kind of government???

in my eyes it matters a lot, because if something is LEGAL and you can get arrested for it, that opens up the doors to a LOT of possibilities that we *could* get arrested for...i hope you see that.

 

I hope you can understand much that you indicate you don't.

Like the fact that out of the two of of, I am willing to bet I am the only one who has made a stand against marijuana laws and slapped the cops across the face while doing it. But you know what? I wasn't going to whine and cry foul if I got arrested. I made a choice and I was prepared to accept the consequences of my choice.

This was a commercial operation, this was not a person exercising their personal rights. You really want to argue that COMPANIES have rights now do you and that the government violated them? The tobacco, pharmacutical and oil companies love people like you.

Take YOUR morality and keep it pal. The world where commercial operations have more rights then a person are coming quick enough without people like you.

Let's look at this company you are claiming had their rights violated shall we?

Right on the first page of their site is this disclaimer;

Do you understand what this means? It means if you buy thier products and you consume them, this company will not only NOT do anything to help you, they will help the LEO's bust you.

And yet you want us to feel bad that they got busted? Wake up and smell the rats who will sell you out to save themselves.

They are not taking a stand and saying 'this law is wrong', they are saying, we want to make money, and if you get busted while we do it, we don't care. Why should we care about them?

There is NOTHING you can say that will make a COMMERCIAL OPERATION being busted a MORAL issue. If you want to play in the commercial world, you play by their rules.

As for any personal animosity I may have towards bouncing bear? I couldn't give a shit about them one way or another.

I just care that people are trying to give commercial operations the same rights and status as a person and portray this as a moral issue.

They were not fighting for anyones 'rights', they were trying to make money. The fact that the feds used underhanded and dirty tactics isn't a shock, it's the way they have always done things, so you can't even claim this is a shock.

Let me give you an idea of what I mean here...

I know people who had been selling black market smokes. A product that is legal to sell. You know what the first thing they (the ones with brains), do when they start making money?

Stashing it away, not in banks, or other places that can be cofiscated, but in places or with people that they know won't get caught in a sweep, so that when they do get busted, they have the means to mount a defense.

How long has BB been inoperation? How much money have they made? Did they take ANY steps to make sure they could handle what anyone with two brain cells could have told them was coming?

NO, they didn't... and now, they are looking to their customers, who already gave them more then enough money (through profits) to mount any type of defense they could need.... IF BB had used common sense and intelligence.

But hey, feel free to call foul over people acting like morons and yell how much of a travesty this is, donate all your money to help out Jon....

I am sure that when he wins in court (as he will), he will spend the next couple of years selling to those who helped him out at cost to make up for it.

 

He better win in court. I will move to mexico the day he looses, so help me god.

 

I don't think there is much chance he will lose once it hits court.

The law enforcement agencies are always sending cases to courts that they know won't get any further.

They get their paychecks and retirement packages regardless of the outcome of their arrests, not to mention getting their picture in the paper arresting 'bad guys'...

Seems some may have gotten the wrong impression from my posts, I'll clear this up.

In no way do I feel what the feds did was right. It wasn't... and from everything I can find, they overstepped the law by far. I believe the courts will recognize that and throw out most if not all of the charges...

That however, doesn't change the fact that BBB is still a commercial operation and not a moral cause.

 

Simple question, who got arrested, a company or a human? the moral issue it not with a company it is with a human being getting arrested for doing nothing illegal. im not sure how else to word this to make a point, but in my beliefs if someone is doing something legal, the law has no right to punish them for soemthing they say is OK.

and if you play by their rules and you the human gets arrested, you are totally fine with that?

i really have no wish to help out BBB, that is about hte onyl thing i agree with you is that they were nto smart business people. buing stupid is not a crime though, and they were wrongfulyl arrested.

if you were arrested for doing your legal job, woulkd you still hold the same opinion of "its the commercial world, laws change according to the officiers"

no matter how you want to twist things and try to argue it, we should have rights, and peple that dont care about having freedom and rights are going to fit right in in not too long a time.

again just so your not coonfusing what im saying, its not so much abotu a company, it is about a person doing business legally, according to the law, and getting everything stolen from them and being forcibly placed in prison for a short time.

i am honestly shocked anyone would care so little about human rights and just say, its a business, fuck them.

no. feel how you want. i just hope that *some* people care enough about their rights that they will do something (with their government, not bbb). donating money to bbb wont do much to change anything, using this as an example to fight corrupt government officials may possibly change something. as far as i know, i could be wrongn as i dont know US law that well, you cant raid a company for a 100% legal product. maybe you can now, and if so that is worse than i would have ever imagined...but after bush anything is possible.

 

And I am even more shocked that you could read what I said and respond with this bullshit.

If your idea of discussing something is to make up your own version of what the person says and then attack them on it... fuck off...

 

if your ever ready to have a calm, mature conversation, i'm all ears...for now you dont seem to get it and i cant seem to explain it to you so lets agree to disagree...dont need to be so uptight...

 

When you demonstrate an ability to discuss what is said as opposed to what you make up, I'll be there...


til then my last comment stands.

 

here is a simple question, then i am tapping out as bickering is a real waste of time.

Do you feel that a person getting arrested for selling legal things is not a moral issue (among other issues)?

i think it is.

is it a business? yes. Was the owner arrested? yes. Why? because he was selling legal products and the fda was not happy with it. is that right? no. Is it moral to arrest someone for selling legal items through a store? not to me.

 

Yes, as I said earlier, what happened to him was wrong, but as I also said, it is to be expected when you act like that...

What ISN'T a moral issue is 'Help Save Jon' which is what this thread was about.

Jon is in the position he is, because of the choices he made.

 

expected, maybe. but is it right?

th eOP posted the link, but this thread seems mor eabout it happening and informing people, not saving him.

he could go to a DEA office and dance around with a big ol morning glory and san pedro and they are legal so they should not be able to arrest him. hypotheticl "slapping of face" should not be an arrestable offence in a country that claims freedom of speech and expression. this is why i find it a moral issue. nto saving jon, but th efact he was arrested adn the government took away freedoms for no lawful reason.

though i dont suppor this business practive, is his way really much different than drug forums, such as this?

"what legal plants get me high?" type posts are really nothing different than anything on his site...

 

Well, okay... I know that he technically wasn't doing anything illegal, but he should have gotten the hell out of Kansas, you can't really fight the law there, and they'll do whatever it takes to make an example out of you. An other thing that he shouldn't have done is tell people how to consume their products. I know it says "do not consume" in their disclaimer, but a couple of people reported he told them how to illegally use them anyways, which was not a smart idea in his position. I hope they can't use the K2 as evidence because it wasn't even illegal, and I hope they scrap the LSA evidence as well because he wasn't even extracting the damn stuff! He probably won't be able to get around the charged for distributing mescaline though... It's sad, but in a way he did kind of put himself in that situation...

 

They set jon free the other day. yay! hopefully he moves his biz to a more liberal state.

 

Excellent news! Also, tell him to move to Canada!!!

 

i have a fresh approach as to why congress doesnt work!! Its because most of them are to busy raping and muderring their own peeps!

back when i was in high school peeps thought the establishment would die out on their own behalf,now though it seems like these snakes got a taste of their own meds he he he

 

Bubbler is soooo ignorant. Here is the real reason.

 

That'll teach you to SPREAD HAPPINESS!