BNP political broadcast...

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by JOsie, May 28, 2004.

  1. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    Fair enough, but just consider how you're coming across. I don't think anyone here minds their opinions being challenged, but some of the way you phrased things was starting to sound quite patronising. Just show a bit of respect and we won't have a problem :)


    For the record, my opposition to GM crops is not based on faith, it's based on caution. The day someone proves to my satisfaction that they're safe, I'll be happy to support them. But like I said, the risks are so high, we need to be very, very careful.

    Why not? I don't see them as wicked anyway. I don't thik they set out to do harm. I think they just put profit before the best interests of humanity.


    Tell that to Chernobyl. This is beside the point though. I didn't say "all progress is bad", I said that just because something can be defined as progress, it doesn't make it a good thing.


     
  2. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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    Just thought you might like to read ..


    http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2875


    I am aware that i do come across sometimes as a pompouse ass ... i will try and turn it down a notch.

    I realise that your probably not diametrically apposed to some of the things i am saying , i should be aware of that with people more often . shameful realy.

    I am taking a chill pill as we speak :eek:
     
  3. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    Lol! No worries dude! I come across as a complete asshole sometimes! (althought mostly that's on purpose.....). Welcome to our exclusive offensive club ;)
     
  4. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    I'm not sure where you get your satatistics for that but I completely disagree with this statement.

    There has been an increase in the UK population by 10 million in the last 60 years, if there is a skills shortage then we need to look at better educating the people who are already here rather than bringing in replacements.
     
  5. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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    :D at last we might have something in common..

    Your website is great .... bye the way .
     
  6. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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    I am sure there is something very very wrong with statement . because i am fik i will leave it to someone more clevar than me...

    http://www.global-visas.co.uk/workpermit/content.asp?topic=WP33
     
  7. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    But it goes deeper than that. Why is there a shortage in skilled labour? We have a large enough population to fill the gaps, so it seems to me that people are not being educated in the right areas.

    Or maybe it is because immigrants are not as expensive to employ as people who are already settled here?

    Apart from that, most mass immigration is from war-torn countries and not a huge influx of skilled labour. So this argument is pretty irrelevant when discussing the huge influx of refugees.
     
  8. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    A Home Office report published in 2002 demonstrated that immigrants make a direct net fiscal contribution to the UK economy in the order of £2.5billion, as well as remarking:

    "The direct fiscal impact is, of course, only one aspect of the contribution that migrants make to the UK. There are wider economic benefits which migrants bring, through their skills and experience, and by setting up new
    businesses and creating new jobs, for example. Therefore, migration also creates further indirect fiscal effects through any increase to gross domestic product (GDP) and the income of the existing population."
    The entire report is here: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/occ77migrant.pdf

    That's fine if you want to wait a couple of generations before we have enough qualified doctors, etc. Otherwise that statement is pure BNP fantasy-land...
     
  9. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    Home Office reports are probably government statistical lies designed to justify their ridiculous immigration policy. There are 60 million people in this country, that statistic is saying that we need even more. It isn't about how many people are here it is about how the country is managed. Countries with smaller far poplulations such as New Zealand and Australia don't have the same immigration policies, they have less needs but they are supported from within their existing population.

    As an inner city dweller I'd like to know why all the local building sites are full of foreign workers ... even unskilled labourers? Simple answer is because they are cheaper and can be easily exploited at the expense of the people who already live here. That might help the economy as it keeps wages down for the fat cat bosses, but that's as far as it goes.

    I agree, if there is a shortage of Doctors or trained medical or health staff then look elsewhere for them, but 100 thousand (or more) refugees a year will not be a shipment of 100 thousand Doctors and engineers.

    So what about the homeless problem? A young man can be on the streets begging for food, a refugee arrives and gets housed immediately ... How does that help the economy?
     
  10. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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    Asylum seeker / immigrant / economic migrant , there is a diffrence..

    If you are thinking we are going to be 'swamped' thats one thing . If you don't want 'them' taking our jobs thats another . If you think that all people coming to this country are not worthy and are not more skilled than we are in some areas thats another point. There is a multitude of diffrent things to consider...

    Have you any fears paul...

    Sure there is jobs that we don't want to do ourselves , and there are vile people willing to use the desperation of others to line there own pockets..

    Thats sort of practice needs stampimg out..

    I want to kick all the lazy sods that were born here and sponge of the system , and 'import' some people that don't mind a good days work.
     
  11. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    I agree totally.

    Tower Hamlets where I live is hugely overcrowded, people struggle for housing and work. I fear for my future at the hands of this government. opportunities being taken away from people who have been here all there lives and handed out to new arrivals on the basis of them being cheaper to employ. They are given priority housing which breeds resentment among the people who wait for years. There is an increase in crime as there are a lot more needy people. There is religious tension. These are valid fears based on observations, move to London and see for yourself.

    absolutely and it's happening on the building site next door to me. The immigrants suffer and so do the 'locals'. The bosses get richer. The government still gets their tax.
     
  12. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Looking at the long term statistics, many countries in Western Europe will be facing population collapse in the second half of this century. Our population is aging and living longer, our indigenous birth rates are at the lowest they have ever been, very shortly we will have more pensioners living way into old age and expecting to be supported by the state, than young people entering the workforce and paying taxes. We already have a lack of young workers and this problem will continue to grow.

    There's an interesting Observer article from 18 months ago which should disabuse you of some of the immigration myths you seem to have picked up:
    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,856031,00.html

    Unfortunately all we ever hear from the right wing press is how we are being flooded and facing a population crisis, when economically and statistically all the figures actually point to quite the reverse.

    We're not talking about refugees, we were talking about workforce migration, I thought? We are obliged under international conventions to accept refugees fleeing persecution. Helping those in need is a thoroughly laudable thing for us to be doing, not to mention a legal requirement. Many people who are anti-immigration, racist, whatever, confuse these two issues. They're quite seperate.

    Who would say that it does? Failing to help everybody is no argument for sending someone back to a repressive regime to be tortured or murdered - surely that's not the point you're making? In terms of economic migrants, more of them means more taxation which can then be spent on tackling domestic issues, such as homelessness. I'm certainly not suggesting that the government is successfully tackling such problems, but to blame immigration or refugees for problems in such an area is very thoroughly to miss the point.
     
  13. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    I was talking about refugees. I think it is fantastic that we offer our support for people fleeing from oppressed nations.

    Economic migrants usually look after themselves and contribute. I have no problem with that.

    However I do not agree with putting a large number of immigrants all into an already overcrowded area. It breeds tension and resentment. Statistics show a national average, but in general it isn't a situation which is spread thinly over the whole country, it is about large amounts of people suddenly arriving in one or more condensed areas.


    I am concerned with this statement from that article:

    'These guys do the work that no-one else wants to do,' one site foreman told The Observer .

    To me this can be read as "no-one wants to do" at the price we offer them to do it.
     
  14. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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    I don't need to move to London to be aware of what your talking about . I agree with what your saying to a point , i hope your not as extreme as http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/K/keep_them_out/

    some facts for us to chew over...
    http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/K/keep_them_out/news.html
     
  15. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    Lol, no, I was at college with an Albanian girl last year, heard some of the stories she told about how she lost her family, was forced to flee her home, constantly moved on by the UN etc. ... very frightening and touching stuff.

    It is every human beings right to seek a better life for themselves. However, I also think it's every governments duty to ensure it happens without affecting anyone elses quality of life.
     
  16. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    The thing is, if this was your concern, I'd expect your comments to be more constructive - i.e. offering suggestions such as spreadint the burden of immigration, rather than simply pointing out the problems. I can't help but feel that the tone of your posts suggests that you'd rather all immigration was stopped entirely. Sorry if I'm reading the wrong thing into what you're saying.

    If you just said "I think immigrants should be spread evenly throughout our communities", I doubt anyone here would disagree with you.
     
  17. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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    Pleasing all the people all the time ...difficult.


    :rolleyes: Glad your not as extreme as those in the link ....

    That programe should have been better and could have been brilliant unfortunatly it was not......anyway thats another story.
     
  18. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    But I don't have an answer, I am no expert and I never claim to be, I just live by my observations, my conscience and my experiences.

    You are reading my posts wrong, I am not anti-immigration, I'm just concerned about people who may suffer as a result of it.

    I can only comment on what I have seen, and I would say that spreading people out more may be a possible solution, but I haven't got any experience of this so do not like to comment. However, it would seem a lot fairer than just shipping everyone back to face whatever uncertain futures they may have.
     
  19. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

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  20. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Yeah, that's a problem - it is with any first generation immigrant community. But look what's happened with the West Indian and Indian / Pakistani communities who came here after WWII - now an invisible and integral part of the fabric of society. It takes a while - perhaps a generation - for new cultures and communities to become absorbed. I'm sure those of us who came over as Romans, Vikings or Normans stuck in little ghettoes for a while.

    Certainly there are shitty low-paid jobs that nobody wants to do which tend to go to unskilled immigrants. But economic migration is driven by an abundance of jobs for the immigrants to do. These jobs are vacant in the first place because native workers are unfit or unwilling to take them. You can't blame immigrants for depressing wages, but you might well have a case that the minimum wage is too low and many jobs are underpaid. This is a governmental / regulatory / fatcat capitalist problem. But we do have very low unemployment and, for whatever reason, worker shortages - this situation encourages immigration.
     

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