Blair got something he didn't expect

Members of the public are allowed into the Houses of Parliament to watch the sessions. Too much of the world's decisions are made by faceless beauraucrats behind closed doors. It'd be a shame if that small scrap of democracy that we can cling to were removed from us....

 

look me and Sal have an argument going on here are you a boy or a girl?

Nice to meet ya either way! Love Clairexxx

 

Male...and likewise

 

Hah! I knew you were a guy! Claire thought you were a girl. I think it's gender bias in the female psyche....

 

What do you want as your prize sal?

 

on the internet, its safe to assume that everyone is a guy..no offense to those who arent

 

Sal just hopes they are

 

I'm a girl. Be in love with me.

 

Casting aspersions as to my sexuality are we? Might have to prove you wrong tomorrow

 

I know you will

 

southern too, thats always good

 

Yaaaay! You like me! You really like me!

 

i was very close to going to school at vandy a few years back, but didnt want to go that far away

 

What happened yesterday was a bad thing for us. This gives the goverment an excuse to close off the public gallery and go one more step further down the road of secrecy, of goverment censorship.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility thatit was preplanned by Blair.

 

Ditto what Maon said. But without the conspiracy theory

 

But you're missing the point. Politicians don't have any real reason to care about the public gallery, beyond a threat to security. It's not like their antics aren't televised anyway. Why would they be particularly bothered about shutting it down?

Added to which, how do you see anarchy working in any practical sense? Especially in a country where most people are governed by a narrow-minded self-interest?

 

Absolutely. And closing the public gallery won't make any practical difference in that regard. Although you could make the point that on balance, agreeing to televise the commons back in the eighties actually had a greater effect than closing the public gallery will ever have.

No, they'll do it because they're concerned about security. They may well not give a fuck, but that's not why the gallery will be closed. Why should they care if it's left open?

Not that I'm defending politicians, but in a country of 70 million people, you can't really expect every single one of them to have access to the ear of the prime minister!

Well then, you need to define it. Are you talking about traditional social anarchism, with devolution of power to worker co-operatives and so forth? Are you talking about utopian anarchism with no forms of government, law, control etc etc? Are you talking about 'green' anarchy, with autonomous self-sufficient communities? Or are you talking about something less specific - a more general anarchic approach in our day-to-day lives?

Well that's factually incorrect. That may be your personal interpretation of anarchy, but there are large portions of political anarchists who believe that the goal of the anarchist should be the violent overthrow of the state.

Oh my god, are you serious?!? No offence intended here, but if you really believe that, then you're seriously out of touch with what's going on in the world! Why do you think the tories were in power for 18 years? Tax cuts! People were more concerned about the money in their pockets than the state of society at large!

You're correct to say a lot of people aren't. But they're still the minority.

Don't be blindly optimistic. I'd rather be a realist than a hippy. And I certainly don't give two flying fucks about my 'hippy status'. I'm an individual, thanks very much, which is kind of what I thought being a hippy was all about?

But let's not forget greed, intolerance, hatred.....

The world didn't get into the state it's in because of political systems. It got into this state because human nature created those political systems. Capitalism and democracy didn't create itself - it arose from human nature.

I can almost hear the politicians quaking in their boots! Seriously, I don't think that voting abstention is necessarily a bad thing, but whoever sees your ballot paper is just going to think "what a twat" and throw it in the bin.

Yes, doing nothing has long been a strong point of political idealists. If everyone had taken your point of view, then the tories would still be in office. You might think labour are no better, but I can assure you the tories were a damn site worse. In the long term of course, politicians are mostly full of shit, but that doesn't stop there being a lesser evil, and labour is still the lesser evil. Maybe if you'd been on a council estate in Liverpool in the eighties you'd have been less inclined to abandon your vote.

Again, depends on which definition of anarhist you're going by. But it's gonna take a lot more that that to change the world. Party on by all means and watch Rome burn, but don't kid yourself that you're changing the world.

 

Interesting debate.

JobCentre Plus has no comment to make at this point, as its nothing to do with us. We just give jobs to people. We would like to strongly express our regret for the attack, and to show disdain for all terrorist activities.

We would like to stress that JobCentre Plus is not affliated with any known terrorist organisations, although we do possess several computers in some of our buildings which may have circuits that might also be in bombs.

Also if you are seeking work in the Greater London area this week, a successful business minded man is seeking a PA to help with accounts, scheduling and cleaning cornflower out of his ears. Immediate start, pay negotiable, applicant must not mind cleaning purple crap off an ageing mans face.

VIVA LAS JOB CENTROS

 

Been there, done that, didn't buy the t-shirt because that woulda been rampant consumerism

Yes, exactly. It's been going on for years. Radical social change achieved? Zero. Progress towards radical social change? Zero. Substantive impact on the system? Zero.

Whether you like it or not, it's a subculture. Nothing more, nothing less. Like any aspect of society, it also has its fair share of ass-holes. I remember a sab group from years back where the sabs were more interested in getting into fights than actually saving animals. I remember an anarchist group where all they ever did was sit around and talk about change rather than actually getting off their asses and doing anything about it. I remember eco-activist groups where I could list the members who are now working for multinational companies.

This might seem cynical, but it's not an opinion - it's direct experience. Not that there's anything wrong with a subculture of resistance, but it's not realistic to believe that this is driving real social change. It's a minority of disaffected individuals who are railing against the system and looking for an alternative lifestyle. Fine in itself, but it ain't gonna change the world. And like any social grouping, you have the same inherent problems. I've seen just as many ego trips and internal political struggles in the subculture as I have in any normal social group. I've seen communes where the members are permanently at war with each other, torn apart by internal bickering over petty shit. Anarchism is a wonderful ideal, but we're nowhere near evolved enough as a species to make it work in practice.

Pissing off rich people is fun. No denying it. I've done my share. Sabbing grouse shoots was always a laugh, sitting in the dug-outs nose to nose with the toffs, watching them fume. Racing past pigs on horses shouting "go any further and you're nicked" and thinking "yeah, I can just see you getting down off that horse....". But it's not anarchism. It's not really about change, it's about anger. And anger is a negative emotion. Setting out to piss people off is not a herald of social change, it's a sign that we're still driven by the same base emotions that have got our species into the shit it's in in the first place.

Now you're never gonna change the world by getting stoned! Fuckin' hell, half the bloody country smokes weed! I work in an office, and half the bloody straights smoke it! Sorry, but pot just isn't radical anymore. Shit, in Liverpool, you used to get pulled over by the dibble at the weekend, and they'd open the backs of the riot vans and you'd see clouds of dope smoke wafting out of the back. Even the coppers smoke it! I remember my first caution. I remember receiving it off the chief constable, no less. I remember him saying "Right, now don't let us catch you next time!" and laughing with me. Pot is about as radical as voting lib dem.

You're promoting the act of deliberately remaining uninformed as a positive act of rebellion? I fail to see how remaining ignorant is anarchic. I've got a good deal of useful information from TV and newspapers. Sure, you have to read and watch with a good degree of cynicism and recognise that the media is largely biased towards the status quo, but the information is still there.

There's a good old-fashioned term for this. The tories call it 'common sense'. Y'know, like it's 'common sense' that we should execute murderers, and 'common sense' that nuclear weapons are a valuable deterrent.

I'm not suggesting that intuition is a bad thing, but it can also be an excuse for narrow-mindedness and prejudice. That's why it needs to go hand in hand with education. Keep yourself informed, and you keep your instincts and intuition informed. That's what should separate hippies from the ignorant masses. Information is everything.

I actually have a lot of sympathy for much of what you're saying, despite how it may seem. The issue that I have with it is not that your ideals aren't good, but rather than I don't believe that what you suggest is a practical way forward towards an alternative society.

The real issue, as I see it, is human nature. I'm of the firm belief that the problems we face in the world today aren't the result of capitalism, imperialism or any other economic/political system. The structures that we have around us have been developed by people. They didn't spring into existence over night. You can blame the rich, but the rich were once poor too. Human nature made them strive in the direction they did and become what they are.

If you look at the history of the world, we've been moving inexorably towards our current position for thousands of years. Nothing has ever bucked the trend.

I believe the world will change, and eventually our current social structure will evolve or fall. But I don't think a few pot-smoking hippies are going to make this happen. We face a slow process, and probably won't see a dramatic shift within our lifetimes.

In many ways, I think the way you lead your life is the most important thing in the world. Change yourself, and you change those around you. What the world needs more than grand political ideals are smaller, microcosmic ideals - compassion, honesty, trust, love. If you can treat those around you according to these virtues, then you spread change at a much more important level. Real change comes from within, and is manifested slowly towards the without. That's the real process that will change the world.

 

I read indymedia too. But just like anything else written by humans, it has its own agenda and bias. Not everything reported by the media is false, and also not everything written by heads is true. Balance is best in all things. Find as much information as you can, and then decide on your own truth.

Sorry, wasn't even thinking about the tabloids. They're just toilet paper as far as I'm concerned.

I never really thought twice about smoking in public anyways. Just did it as a matter of course, not a political statement. Never met a copper who could be bothered nicking you for a bit of blim.

Guess we'll never see eye to eye on this one. I see the system being run by incredibly powerful vested interests which you'll never change by force or subversion. The only thing that will ever change the system is the force of history. and this will surely happen, simply because our current direction is entirely unsustainable. The other problem that you face currently is massive inertia. Too many people are happy with the status quo, and have not the slightest desire for change. Also, the problems that we face are global. National governments will never buck the trend simply because it's not possible for them to do so in a global marketplace where the world is really run by trans-national conglomerates.

The world's always been a scary place, and always will be. This is part of the challenge of life. You don't need to find an idealistic vision in order to assuage your child's concerns. Isn't it sufficient that the world is also a truly wonderful place, where despite the darkness, you can still find your own path and happiness?

I completely disagree. I think that the planet will indeed heal itself in time, and that people will evolve into a more compassionate species yadda yadda yadda.... but you underestimate the forces that are aligned against this. Not least of all, human nature itself. Evolving beyond our basic biological urges and becoming more in tune with our higher selves is still a massive challenge for even the most forward-thinking of us. In order for this to become a reality for the whole planet, you need a quantum-shift in perception that's just not going to happen that quickly. I have no doubt it will in time, but it's going to be a long and uncomfortable road.

Glad to be of service