Bible Questions?

Discussion in 'Sanctuary' started by OlderWaterBrother, May 17, 2009.

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  1. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Who Is Michael the Archangel?

    THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael?

    At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.

    Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

    Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.
     
  2. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    I find the evidence impressive, but there are some possible problems. Daniel 10:4 decribes a man that is very similar to the way Jesus is described in Revelations 1:12-20. If Jesus is the one speaking to Daniel then he couldn't be Michael as seen in verse 13.



    Also Hebrews seems to discredit the idea that Jesus could be an angel as seen here.

     
  3. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    All the evidence for Jesus being Michael is circumstantial and so it can not be proven one way or the other with certainty.

    In this case though, since the angel that was speaking resisted with the king of Persia for 21 days and then needed assistance from Michael, I would say that the angel that was speaking was not Jesus, since I don't believe if it was Jesus he would have needed assistance from Michael but that's just my take on it. ;)
     
  4. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    Sorry I posted the Hebrews text late in my other post. Hebrews 1 compares Jesus to angels.

     
  5. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    I think Jesus created the angels so he's more than an angel although I find the similarities interesting.
     
  6. def zeppelin

    def zeppelin All connected

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    It does sound like he created the Angels. I think that you're right. He is more than an angel and he also created the angels.

    My position atm is that he is the Archangel and is also the Son of God and through him, kinda like a blueprint, was everything designed. Just like we are in the likeness of our parents, Jesus/Michael is in the likeness of his father. In other words, we share the same qualities as our parents but we are still our own unique person.
     
  7. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    I've been thinking about this quite a bit today. If God is infinite and invisible how could we possibly know him exept through a mediator. That's why the Bible always uses angels or messengers. So Jesus is the image or creator, but his abilities are only possible by God working through him. So Jesus works like an extension of God and not as a separate god. Like Moses when he was speaking to the burning bush he was speaking to God but through an angel.
     
  8. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Could it be why he is the only archangel? ;)
     
  9. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Question? Is it possible that the Pentecost experience be associated with psycho intoxication from an affected communal food source? I realize that the possibility would be a rare event considering that any contamination would have to circumvent the kosher barrier.
     
  10. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    ...or perhaps he's more than an angel. In Jude 9 Michael calls on the Lord to rebuke Satan, but Jesus rebuked Satan himself. ;)

    yet Michael, the chief messenger, when, with the devil contending, he was disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring up an evil-speaking judgment, but said, `The Lord rebuke thee! (Jude 9)


    Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only (Mat 4:10)


    Also, 2 Peter 2:11 shows how angels can't accuse celestial beings which explains why Michael calls on the Lord to do it.

    even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. (2 Peter 2:11)
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Jesus called Peter Satin. What are we to make of these names?
     
  12. def zeppelin

    def zeppelin All connected

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    Matthew 16:21-23:

    From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"
    Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

    Peter rebuked Jesus claiming that he was not the Christ and to not carry out the mission. Jesus rebuked him back for suggesting that he should not fulfill his earthly mission. So while Jesus calls him Satan, it isn't a title as much as it is a way to snap him back to his senses.
     
  13. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    So Satan is a sensibility, a mindset, as opposed to an entity. If it is so in this case, why not in every case.
     
  14. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    The source for sin is in the mind, but then it manifests itself into actions, so it's both in the mind and outside.

    The mind is always being controlled by something whether good or bad.
     
  15. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    No, Satan is not a sensibility or mindset; he is a being, a Spirit creature. When Jesus said get thee behind me Satan, he was telling Peter that he was expressing Satan thoughts and not God's. :D
     
  16. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    The mind is always being controlled and the question for us as a practical matter cannot be one of good or bad. Judgment belongs to God.

    All function arises at the moment of conception. Conception is the starting point of creation. We, being created in the likeness of God, in turn create in the same creative manner. It is at the level of mind, the intention of mind, the focus of mind, that we must work. It is you of free will, intention, that controls your mind, not some spooky entity. Otherwise this is just another Greek Pantheon of Godlike entities going about their Godlike interests using us as currency.
     
  17. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Exactly, and it is why he was rebuked, because he had a Satanic mindset, (your word thoughts), instead of Gods. Angelic beings are attitudes of creation.
    God said let there be light, the first creation, and there was light before all else. Light is consciousness, the power of both conception and perception.
     
  18. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    The mind is like a rudder. Our conscience is used to determine if our life is headed in the right direction. If good and bad aren't used how can we determine where we are headed?

    I think the mind is also controlled by patterns that have been created over time. Like Groundhogs Day we have our habits and ways of thinking and doing that can be difficult to change. I agree with you that focus of the mind is important, but action reinforces our thinking. They work together.
     
  19. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Sin is initially an error in perception. We cannot even see the road, but we can examine the contents of our own mind. Is our reasoning true or is it false. The truth shall set us free.


    I agree that in a far larger part than we might imagine, our minds are on auto pilot and habit is the result of a biological geometric matrix, a biological crystal, that serves as a transducer of impulses. To alter the pattern we grow new neural networks by actively intending the mind along new pathways. This is why faith grows. True faith is rewarded by positive feedback and this process begins to generate resonance, that is large oscillation. i.e., the birds of the air come to make their nests.
     
  20. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Deeds are the particle aspects of the waveforms of conception.
     
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