Bible Questions? III

Mind if I ask for a digression here? I'm pretty much interested in seeing where this line of thought is going. It looks like it never really went anywhere ... just stopped on an unanswered question (well, two of them).

Mind taking this conversation further?

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I was asking if Abraham was the father of the faith in the one God, did the one God begin with that faith? Was God absent before that time. Surely my sons would not be left wondering if they had a home.

 

What about Noah? He was before Abraham. The story from Adam and Eve would have passed down from generation to generation up to Noah then the rest is history.

 

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ok but my friend was saying that when they translated the word carpenter the original word was somewhere in the lines of a person being skilled with tools?

but then again you think about it and carpenter sits it.....

 

Then, from Noah, a single individual having a personal relationship with God expands at some point, to a theocracy, a nation blessed and informed by God.
Right now we have living examples of theocracy and they demonstrate to be at loggerheads with each other and the world at large.
My own take on this question is that God had always been and is always available to anyone regardless of their political affiliations. My fathers house was meant for all nations, natures, but you have turned it into a den of robbers and thieves. Who's picture is on the coin, Caesar's, the state. The state makes laws to control behavior and doles out punishments as enforcements. This state is antithetical to the law of the sabbath. The battle is not between good and evil but between good, God, and mammon.

 

No problem.

Originally Posted by thedope
What was God's relationship to man before the advent of the Jew?

Originally Posted by OlderWaterBrother
Pretty much the same as after until Jesus.


Originally Posted by thedope
They didn't always have God's covenant did they? Where was God before then?

You see, God's relationship to mankind was the same before and after the covenant with the Israelites.

Mankind as a whole, did not have God's covenant before or after God covenanted with the Jews.

It seems thedope some how thought that Abraham was the father of the faith in the one God or that faith in God started with the covenant with the Jews but the Bible indicates that there had been men of faith from the very beginning, starting with Abel and on down to Abraham and beyond.

As for God being absent, again from the very start God has been guiding things so that mankind can get out of the "hole" they got themselves into, shown by the very first prophecy in the Bible at (Genesis 3:15) “And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.” which tells what God is going to do about the problem.

 

there were various forms of Christianity--untol thr 300 ads---hoe cam u pick and choose what appeals to you-------hundreds of forums---i jusy cant sobscribe to the watwred down form

 

By watered down, do you mean intermediary?

 

Just because God set up a theocracy does not mean that individuals can no longer have a personal relationship with God.

I'm not sure what you mean by "living examples of theocracy" but just because a nation calls itself a theocracy does not mean that it is one.

God is apolitical, unless you wish to count his true worshipers as a nation. “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him. (Acts 10:34-35)

Your fathers house?

Yes.

Yes

How so?

How do you figure?
We have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12)

 

Actually what I think is at some point there was a departure, a new representation, and I was wondering what changed. There was a point where God became "institutional"

The very first prophesy of the bible is let there be light and then there was light.

 

How did god set up a theocracy? God is apolitical.

A theocracy is any institution which writes laws or canon and calls these laws or canons the supreme good.

Yes, mine, his, yours.

The sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath.

The state and the coin are identical. The battle is for your affection. The state decides whether or not you are a "worthy" citizen based on "worthy" performance, rates of exchange which are arbitrary depending on the magistrate. This is mammon.
The truth is, all value is given by God.

 

In view of this discussion, it seems as two sides of the same face. A mirror image one of the other,on one side the word theoretical and true,and on the other the word is practical and true.Good read.

 

Actually nothing changed, this "institutionalization" was part of God working out that first prophesy. God was sending the promised "seed" to the earth was preparing for mankind to able to recognize that "seed" when it came.

This was not prediction of what will happen in the future.

 

Yes, God is apolitical, when it comes to the nations of the earth but when it comes to his worshipers he has set up a theocracy for them.

As for how, the Bible has the details for that, you can just look it up.

One could say that but in reality there is only one true theocracy and is the one set up by God and has God as it's ruler and it is God who writes the laws or canon for it.

The term father can have many meanings, I was asking in what sense do you call God your father?

Yes, that is what Jesus said but what has that to do with whether "This state is antithetical to the law of the sabbath" or not?

Actually not, there have been states that have not issued "coin" and there have been "coins" issued that were not issued by a state.

There is a battle for our worship, not for our affection. Satan could care less whether we have affection for him, he just wants our worship. Satan did not ask Jesus for affection but for just one act of worship.

True but still God has asked us to obey those "states" as long as what they ask is not against God law.

No, "mammon" is money or riches and there is nothing wrong with either unless you allow them to become your god.

God does not care how much your big flat screen TV cost you.

 

How shall I compare this generation, we piped and you did not sing or dance.
God's seed has always been in the world.

If the light came after the pronouncement, then the future was predicted. we've had this discussion before. You use a specialized vocabulary that prevents you from understanding terms in their fullest sense.

 

When you pray, pray to your father in secret as he knows you in secret.
This does not sound like theocracy. Praying in secret is a far cry from the state codification of worship. If God is apolitical then no politic comes from him. Politic is displaying shrewdness tact or cunning, non of which is required in the face of absolute power.

This is like saying in reality there is only one true religion. The practical evidence simply does not support your statement. We know things by their fruit, how they function, not by what language you use to describe them.
Content can take on many forms and these forms may appear like divergent entities but they are the same in content and function, like races of men.

Father as creator, father, as father to child.

The state says you must work and pay taxes, your value is metered in denominations of percentage points. God gives in the sabbath a world complete and given us to do with as we will.

Every state has an interest in controlling it's own economy, coin, tithe.

How can you speak for both God and Satin, a house divided against itself cannot stand. How can you speak for both sin and no sin.
We are devotional, worshipful by nature. This nature expresses itself between the instinct of self preservation and gratitude of being. the battle is between substance as source and spirit as source, between God and mammon. Mammon comes from the Aramaic, "mamona", which means "riches", not just money.

Actually we are to give to the state what belongs to the state and to God what belongs to God.

You cannot serve both God and mammon.

I love this patently self serving argument. After fulfilling every other requirement, sell all that you have and give to the poor.

 

Thank you for answering my question. And actually my friend, my next question was going to be; Why are their other children/child ommited from the bible? Do you have info to back up that Adam and Eve had other children? Thank you

 

(1 Timothy 6:3-4) If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words.. . .

 

That your sins are forgiven are the most healthful words I can use brother.

 

The First Council of Nicaea is commonly regarded to have been the first Ecumenical council of the Christian Church. Most significantly, it resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Creed of Nicaea. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom


This occurred in regard to the bible, the attempt to codify the living word. This occurred as regards the church, setting up a ritual relationship as opposed to a living one.