Beyond a Brexit

As I’ve said before looking across the Brexit threads on the forum you can get a feel for the characters of the supporters on each side of the argument and I’m sorry to say that is a sad indictment of those on the leavers side who often come across as Il-informed, hate filled, mean of spirit and petty who are happy to say barefaced lies while often seemingly contemptuous of democratic procedures and institutions.

I ask if you are a decent person and a leaver don’t you look around you and wonder what crowd you have fallen into and why?

I mean if you are on the side of an argument that is attractive to these kind of people as well as racists and neo-Nazis types wouldn’t you be asking yourself if you were on the right side of that argument?

 

I am a remainder and wished/wish to stay for a few reasons (Health and Safety, Security and trade i.e.)
However,
A vote is a vote, and as a democracy should be adhered to.
What is the bigger concern was/is has seen my worse fears, in that NO substantial strategy for leaving was considered - primarily by those who advocated it.
- But Brexit is Brexit (warts and all)
My Thread is about the possibility of UK Break-up, and the practical possibility of self government by the Home Countries.
- Any Comment/s on that?

 

Yes, if each constituent part VOTES for self determination outside the power of a Westminster Parliament, then who are we to stop them ???

 

The last Scottish independence vote was roughly No 55% to Yes 45%

The legal position of the EU was that Scotland would have to reapply for membership as a new nation rather than continuing on with their UK membership and that would have meant taking the Euro and the problem was that at the time the Euro was going through a bad patch and the chancellor at the time was saying the Scottish couldn’t use the pound.

So there was fear of economic disruption if there was independence so many Scot voted No with their head rather than going with their hearts.

If there is Brexit the Scot’s will get the economic disruption (and feel it as a betrayal because one of the things said by the Westminster Tories at the time was there was no chance of the UK pulling out of the EU) so that drawback goes out the window so I think next time the vote could pass.

That means as mentioned Scotland re-joining the EU and that will mean taking the Euro and accepting the Schengen agreement and if England is out of the EU a hard border between the two nations.

Northern Ireland is more problematic, there are still many unionists who are very much against a unification but again if there is a big economic hit (as expected) from Brexit and economic advantages to re-joining the EU through unification then it’s possible that many might go with their heads rather than their hearts.

 

An Interesting question

If Scotland does leave the union and becomes an EU member will those people of Scottish descent living in England be able to claim a Scottish (and therefore EU) passport?

*

No accurate data on people of Scottish ethnicity around the world exists but as well as Scottish people living in Scotland, there are thought to be around 2 million people of Scottish descent living in the rest of the United Kingdom.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/scotland-population/

 

The plebescite on Irish independence (buggered up by Churchill) was in 1921. There has been significant changes in population since then, and notwithstanding your point about Unionist determiniation, if there was a new plebescite, it it by no means certain that the Unionists, who are no longer in the majority, would win.

 

- Oh the surprises that Elections can bring
It can be down to the day, - with the waves of apathy so choppy and the wind of changes so variable - the resulting endgame is still anyone's guess

 

Its all down to who Corbyn can bribe this time ? lat time it was the students with their fees !! will he get away with that one again ?

 

I think Corbyn getting elected was the thing that Labour needed - as a kick up a complacent ass - the Battle was Won.
However, - when it comes to Winning the War then a different strategy is required and I doubt if tactfully the right plans have been drawn, with a hung and dived set of parties seeing a more than usually chaotic government the probable outcome

 

Ha Ha I wouldn't vote for any of them at the moment

 

"My Heart is RED, I can't be BLUE,
My Soul is GREEN, what do I do???
There's GOLD that glistens - promises much
and EDL - who, I wouldn't touch

The Brexit 'Party' sees, a country torn
A better future? it's, a hope forlorn
I guess, deep blue sea or Devil choice
Hard place or rock, who'll hear my voice?

Once again, the same old political blurb
Compared, Lord Such, = not that absurd
But maybe, from the chaos we'll see,
A figure of, stability?"
- (Or not)

 

Are you forgetting about the Brexit Party.

If we do not get Brexit satisfactorily before the next election Nigel may get a majority. That guy has more energy and common sense than all of the other lying cheating remainers put together.

 

Characters not a good leader make (I did include the B.P in my Poetic observation - see post 31)

 

We should get them to renew their vows to England or deport them back to Scotland LOL

 

I make no vows to an aristocracy or a neo-nazi scumbag 'nasty party' !!!

 

Given that we can trace our ancestry back through the years where would this end?
I'm English born - Mothers side = Welsh, Fathers side goes - London, Derbyshire, Scotland, Scandinavia , Germany, Holland, (- that I know of!) - (I guess that makes me more Celtic?)

 

And Wales?

We have talked about Scotland and Northern Ireland leaving the union after Brexit as they voted to remain but as some have pointed out Wales voted to leave and I was talking to someone about this and they told me that actually it seems the Welsh voted to remain but it was the English ‘colonists’ that voted to leave.

A professor of geography at Oxford, Danny Dorling, found that “If you look at the more genuinely Welsh areas, especially the Welsh-speaking ones, they did not want to leave the EU,” Dorling told the Sunday Times. “Wales was made to look like a Brexit-supporting nation by its English settlers.”

About 21% (650,000) of people living in Wales were born in England, with nearly a quarter aged over 65. The country voted for Brexit by a majority of just 82,000.

Border towns and areas of central Wales with large English communities, such as Wrexham and Powys, recorded a higher proportion of leave votes, whereas Welsh-speaking areas such as Gwynedd and Ceredigion had high remain votes.

Dorling’s research, which was presented at the British Science Association’s annual meeting at Warwick University, also suggested that most of the UK’s leave votes did come not from the north of England but the south, with the highest numbers in areas populated with affluent older people, such as Hampshire, Cornwall and Devon.

“The Welsh did not want to quit the EU, but that is one of many false beliefs about Brexit. The biggest is that the pro-leave vote was due to northerners,” he said. “It’s true some northern areas were strongly pro-Brexit, but the population there is too small to swing the vote.

“The real support for Brexit, in terms of numbers of votes, was in places like Cornwall, which was 57% for leave, Hampshire with 54%, Essex with 62% and Norfolk with 57%. It is those southern English voters that are dragging Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland unwillingly out of Europe.

“Everyone blames Wigan and Stoke for Brexit but we should really be blaming Cornwall and Devon.”

English people living in Wales tilted it towards Brexit, research finds

 

So the study mentioned above basically points to Brexit been a Southern English Nationalist movement not a British one.

 

The more I read the more I think that - just as the Americans think - for England, See London.
Perhaps it's more obvious for those not in the Southern areas of the land?

 

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