Benefits of Globalisation?

Discussion in 'Globalization' started by veinglory, May 13, 2004.

  1. veinglory

    veinglory Member

    I am in general all for trading locally, but I can think of some counter arguments. It can be useful to consider them so we stay a bit open minded and sensible.

    For example: the idea of competitive advantage (each region making what it makes best and then trading it) can lead to animal welfare benefits -- cows can be kept all year round on pasture in New Zealand, so if NZ made a lot fo the worlds milk the life of the average milk cow would be much nicer?

    So, just to play devil's advocate, what could other benefits of globalisation be?
     
  2. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Globalization would work is if every nation involved adhered to the same laws and regulations (something like the EU or NAFTA, except accepted worldwide) to prevent the exploitation of the developing countries. As long as everyone is on equal footing, globalization would work much better than local production of everything.
     
  3. veinglory

    veinglory Member

    I agree. Then it would give trade advantage to those who pay slave wages etc... In a funny way free tade advocates the the real utopian thinkers...
     
  4. HuckFinn

    HuckFinn Senior Member

    Where did you get the idea that NAFTA countries have equivalent labor or environmental protections? That is far from the truth:

    http://www.global-poverty.org/PolicyAdvocacy/pahome2.5.nsf/allarticleshome/A4FC678BA27E35BB88256E46008361F4/$file/Maquilas4.pdf
     
  5. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Which is why I say something like (see: similar to but not the same) NAFTA. I said that the idea of one global trade community is a good one, not that the ones we have now are any good themselves.
     
  6. Pointbreak

    Pointbreak Banned

    What people are asking is for high labor and environmental standards to be forced on developing countries so that they are no longer competitive and that way they can't compete and will stay poor.

    All we need is a free trade via the WTO.
     
  7. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Or we could just impose bare minimal health/security standards so there are no 18 hour workdays and 16 year old sweatshop workers in unsafe conditions. I have nothing against free trade, just as long as everyone adheres to the same guidelines.
     
  8. HuckFinn

    HuckFinn Senior Member

    "Competitiveness" should not be gained by suppressing labor rights and discarding basic environmental standards. We cannot have "free" trade with countries ruled by thugs.
     
  9. WhatIs

    WhatIs Member

    Globalization is not about free trade. It is about American Capitalist Consumerism spreading it's empire across the world.

    Iraq is globalization at it's worst. "bringing democracy and freedom", my ass.

    I remember watching Bush give a speach promoting globalization. There was footage in the background showing a some people living a traditional way of life. There were a couple of small huts, and some people riding horses and walking. They were living the way people had in that part of the world for thousands of years. Bush was saying how we need to help bring these people into the modern world. How these poor people didn't even have electricity, etc.

    Yeah, it'll all be better when they have credit cards and Starbucks. Globalization destroys societies, in order to further enrich the rich.
     
  10. THEN GIVE A FEASIBLE ALTERNATIVE TO POVERTY!! Seriously, I always hear people complaining about how globablization hurts the poor, but I have never in my life heard someone give a means for them to get out of poverty. If you don't think globablization works, then don't expect anyone to take your emotions seriously if you don't have a plan yourself.

    And don't give me the whole "gift economy" bullshit. If that EVER happens it will be 1,000 years from now, after millions more of the poor die from lack of health care, income, and education.

    It is extremely easy for us middle-class Americans to sit behind our computers and say we care about the poor. But I've been to a third world country (not just mexico) and trust me, the poor DON"T HAVE TIME TO WAIT for an alternative solution. They will take whatever job is available to them because they WANT to improve their lives any way they can, just like any other group of people on Earth.

    I'm not saying that free trade without any consequences is the best way to go, but like I said, we don't have time to wait for something like anarchy or a gift economy to work itself out. We have no choice but to cooperate with the current system if anything beneficial to the poor is to get done.

    And one more thing: I don't understand you people's hatred of the rich. It's as though once someone earns more money than you they instantly morph into evil deamonds. Please. Rich people should have rights just like the poor should: and that includes the right to spend their money any way they want.

    -Kate
     
  11. WhatIs

    WhatIs Member

    I wrote about globalization being a euphanism for American Capital Consumerist Empire. It destroys traditional cultures, and for many of those on the receiving end, creates true poverty where it never existed before.

    There is a difference between not living like an American and being poor. A "high standard of living" is the manifestation of giving priority to material values over spiritual ones. The obvious mistake with this is evident in the fact that the U.S., despite it's "high standard of living" has a huge percentage of it's population on anti-depressants, and hosts more violence than any other country not at war.

    I have also travelled a bit. I spent considerable time in small villages in Nepal, where the inhabitants were, by your description, "poor". They were the happiest people I've ever met. And they worked a lot less than the typical American, too.

    If you think that shopping malls and SUVs would improve their lives...
     
  12. I'm not talking about shopping malls and suvs. I'm talking about basic health care, education, infastructure, sanitary water, and appropriate sewage systems. None of these things can be aquired unless a country has money. And you still haven't given me an alternative means for these countries to get money. I've been to Tanzania, and yes the people are very friendly, but that doesn't mean they don't feel the pain of poverty. There were beggars at nearly every street corner--child beggars who couldn't go to school for whatever reason, people dying of AIDS, people trying to make a living selling paintings to foreigners, people who have to walk for miles when they need medical care because there is no ambulance system, orphanages (one of which I worked at) filled to their maximum capacity because the children's mothers had died in childbirth (due to a poor health care system) and the rest of their family was too poor to care for them. Once you give me a feasible means for countries to be able to supply themselves with such needed institutions, then we can talk.


    -Kate
     
  13. Megara

    Megara Banned

    very well said.
     
  14. WhatIs

    WhatIs Member

    >>I'm talking about basic health care, education, infastructure, sanitary water, and appropriate sewage systems<<

    You are talking about the world you are familiar with. And I would offer that the places you visited had societies and cultures that were destroyed by Western colonialization. It is, in fact, the aftermath of globalization that you see as poverty.

    For many thousands of years, people all over the world have lived well without the versions of these institutions that you live with. People have lived badly, as well. People have an amazing ability to refuse to learn. War for instance. But there are, and have been, cultures that live simple lives barely above subsistance level, where kindness and humanity and equality are considered the important things. Spirituality over materialism.

    It's a shame we can't talk until I agree that your view is right. Oh, well.
     
  15. For god's sake stop blaiming everything on western colonialization. I am sick to death of the white man getting blamed for everything. Tanzania has been independent for over 40 years. And how do you get that Tanzania was better off before? They still had the same standards of living, they just didn't know that they were poor because they didn't know anyone in other parts of the world lived any better.

    And I don't understand your logic about health care, infastructure, etc. being a bad thing. People can retain their sense of community and kindness and still go to the doctor. I'm not talking about nomadic tribes who wish to retain their traditional ways, I'm talking about the vast majority of other people who WANT health care, education, and infastructure. If they want it, who are you to deny it to them? The nomadic Maasai in Tanzania have retained their traditional ways, but they still want to send their kids to school, and alot of villages offer tours in an attempt to earn money to send their kids to school. Again, if they want the money, and they want to send their kids to school, who are you to deny them that? It is easy for you to say that they do just fine without health care because you live in a society where there is health care, education, and other such things. If you can improve the education and health of a community, you make the community and their traditions stronger. How can a society retain its culture when so many mothers die in childbirth, so many people die of treatable illnesses, and so many children are denied knowlege of the outside world? How does this improve their lives?

    And no, I did not say I wouldn't speak with you unless you agreed with me. I said we could talk when you offered a feasible alternative to getting people out of poverty, which you STILL have not done. But since you seem so convinced that the poor are better off sick and ignorant, I guess our levels of logic to not match up.

    -Kate
     
  16. WhatIs

    WhatIs Member

    off topic.

    The thread is about globalisation, which is a specific term used to describe the spread of multi-national business interests around the world, especially to third world countries.

    Humanitarian aid and the desire to help people is wonderful, and I did not mean to say it wasn't.

    Globalisation is not about health care. It is about profits. It does not help third world societies as much as it destroys the society they had. Traditional ways of life are typically replaced by factory work, and living in urban slums.

    Let's both try to stay on topic, or start a new thread.
     
  17. TreePhiend

    TreePhiend Member

    WhatIs and Strawberry_Fields_Forever, you both are very eloquent debators, dare I say master debators. I wanted to say that I enjoyed reading both your posts, very well said. I would agree with WhatIs about this thread straying from the topic of globalization to basic inequalities between poor and wealthy nations.
     
  18. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Healthcare that we know is NOT coming to those parts of the world without radical change. Globalization can bring about that change

    Blame the country, not the company. Nike is not setting the minimum wage in china. Blame china for their poor work standards. Not nike.

    Corporations are willing destroying societies? The people who work for them are doing so on their own accord. They are chosing ot work for 35 dollars a month or whatever. Yes, 35 dollars a month sucks, but thats China's fault, not Nikes.
     
  19. Pointbreak

    Pointbreak Banned

    Exactly. The false premise here is that societies are happy and healthy and then along comes globalisation which drives everyone into poverty. The reality is that globalisation has brought wealth and higher living standards.

    While some may idealise the photogenic beauty of rural subsistence living, it is poverty all the same.
     
  20. WayfaringStranger

    WayfaringStranger Corporate Slave #34

    there are benefits to globalization. its gonna be easier to keep you down. its gonna be easier to exploit you. its gonna be easier to imprison you for devient or original behaviour. its gonna be easier to keep you in debt. its gonna be easier to get you to accept the mark of the beast, its gonna be easier to medicate you, its gonna be easier to track you, its gonna be easier for you to sell your children into slavery...... the benefits are countless.
     

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