ban the bra

I think being naked and having sex with someone on a beach are two very different things. Having sex can have negative consequences and can hurt people, whereas just being naked has no bad consequences and hurts noone. Besides some kid seeing a naked person would take that alot better than that kid seeing some naked person with another naked person having sex on a beach. Even if people allow nudity on a beach there has to be some limit to how far you can go.

Sex is a whole different thing than being nude and there are legitimate reaosns why its not a good idea to do it in public. Personally if it was just up to me i wouldnt bother someone if i saw them having sex on a nude beach but its not something id suggest people do, it gives us nudists a bad rep because we want to show theres a difference between being nude and it being sexual and how could we do that if we have a bunch of people humping each other on a beach?

No, because nudity hurts noone, while sex can and it can have an impact on people around you alot more than just being nude does. Nudity is alot easier to explain to someone like a lil kid than two people having sex outside is.

I dont think people who have sex in public are a threat to others necessarily but it could give people the wrong idea and if people are that promiscuous to have sex out in the open then you really dont know what else they could possibly do, especially if theyre uncommited gay people who have sex with almost anyone they come across.

Im not uncomfortable with sex in public, I just dont suggest people go out there and do it ebcause its a whole different ballgame than just being out there and being nude. Being nude is more of a recreational thing while having sex is supposed to be more of a private and intimate thing.

It is if you want people to learn to accept that you being nude is okay and if you dont want them to see you as some disgusting pervert. How would you ever convince them of this if you keep your clothes on and just go with the flow with them like theres something wrong with you being naked in their presence.

No im just telling them how I feel and theyre the ones getting into a bad mood about it. I dont make them feel that way, if they feel that way its because they wanna let what i say make them feel that way. I just dont think they should wear clothes all the time and then complain because nudity is seen as such a bad thing, if you really want people to accept you when youre nude you should get out there, be nude and not worry about how they feel, just dont act like its something wrong to do and eventually theyll catch on to the fact that theres nothing wrong with it.

Yeah and how are you gonna get that world when you always dress how othe rpeople would like you to just because how you want to dress makes them feel uncomfortable? if its your body you should be able to dress how you want and its none of their damned business if they like it or not.

Well yeah when its not really your choice and its just someone else's choice for you just cuz they feel uncomfortable with you being the way you are. Youve said countless times how you and others here would like to be naked but you put clothes on just because other people dont like seeing you naked, well if you truly want them to let you wear what you want to then you should just go naked and not let what they say change the way in which you dress, if they see it enough theyll get used to it and come around to the idea of it. If you have to accept half of the crap im sure thet wear then how come they cant accept you being topless or naked?

Yeah it is when these stds get spread out so much and you never know who has them at what time and for all you know the guy you have sex with some night might have been one of those guys that was having sex out on the beach and got stds. Also their lifestyle is totally immoral and if they have sex out on the beach the way they do then you just never know what else they could do and you wouldnt want your kids or anyone else around them because they might hurt them.

These people have sex with so many people and you just never know what they have in their bodies and some of these guy also have sex with women if theyre bisexual so they can end up passing the std onto other women and they can spread uncontrolably and you just never know who is gonna give them to you next when you have sex. These gay people do not have commited relationships and are incredibly promiscuous and have sex with multiple partners outside of marriage and they dont care who or what thy give to anyone else. I would be worried about that sort of thing.

The thought of a man hitting on me creeps me out because its not normal and I dont want some guy doing that to me, especially since ive got a girlfriend and any guy would have no business screwing around with me anyways. Im sure alot of gay guys would not back off and I wouldnt want to get into any position where i might get hurt.

More people in the world are straight and have long and commited relationships than gay or bisexual people do. If your kind was so commited and so good then why areint there more of you out there and why doesnt the majority of society want gay marriage then? This is just like that 50% divorce rate crap you try to push on everyone. I cant beleive that 50% of the damned country cant even keep a stable marriage together, thats just bs.

 

i don't exactly know how 2 help u... maybe bandaids?


but keep in mind we have bras so our boobs won't hang low,
so they won't wobble to and fro,
don't wan't to tie them in a knot or tie them in a bow,
or throw them over your shoulder,
this will happen when your older
if you don't wear a bra!

 

Listen I don't know where the fuck you get your information but I can tell you right now that they are PEOPLE and they DO have commited relationships, why the hell do you think they're trying to get married everywhere? To break the hell up again? And how the fuck would they hurt children?! Men and women have sex ALL THE TIME, they go from one partner to another every other day, but that's alright as long as they're different genders?!

 

I really think we should just keep this topic on the bra/topless thing and not get into the whole gay/sex thing, it really has nothing to do with the subject at hand here and I dont wanna argue constantly about gays and sex with a bunch of closed minded homosexuals, no offense but it just doesnt get us anywhere and its a waste of time.

 

How are THEY close minded?!

 

The gays wanting to get married is just a stunt, they wanna prove they can do it and they dont like the govenrment telling them no, thats all this is about is a bunch of burnt out old hippies trying to rebel against the law of the land. Many of these people are not commited and once theyve made their point will just go back to their promiscuous lifestyle. If you let gays have freedom of marriage then other groups will want it as well and youll never be able to stop them and soon family members and animals will be getting married to people for the same reasons gays could.

A child seeing two men or two women habing sex together could traumatize them or make them grow up with a twisted sense of reality.

I dont think its alright any way weither they are gay or not, nobody should be promiscuous.

 

I dont wanna talk about this gay stuff, its annoying and it doesnt get us anywhere.

 

Because no matter what i say to them they think the direct opposite and think what im saying is nonsense and act like im being hateful and intolerant to them when they know full well im just speaking the truth and that their lifestyle is immoral and wrong. I just dont wanna talk about it here because it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

This is the issue at hand.

 

Mike - I'm not gay. I'm heterosexual, and I don't have sex in public. I don't WANT to have sex in public. I don't want sex in public to be acceptable. I'm just facing you up to the fact that you're a damned hypocrite.

You ask for tolerance of your way of life, but you refuse to tolerate other peoples, and indeed, spout ridiculous untruths and exaggerations, and make value judgements.

"Sex is a whole different thing than being nude and there are legitimate reaosns why its not a good idea to do it in public."

People who oppose public nudity feel exactly the same way about being nude in public. Now, I happen to think they're wrong. Indeed, I happen to agree with you, nudity is harmless, sex in public is offensive, and I don't want it to happen. HOWEVER, it is not 'obvious' that sex in public is bad, any more than that nudity is. People who don't want to see nude people need to be respected. We need to try to persuade them that it's ok, we need to campaign for more places where it's allowed, it would be nice if the world was like Denmark, where they set aside beaches for those who DON'T want to go naked, and allow it at all the others (95%). What we DON'T need to do is to FORCE people to deal with something they find offensive. If we do that, they have every reason to disrespect us, since we disrespect them.

Your views about people who are uncomfortable with nudity are off the wall. My best friend is a woman. I go naked in the summer round most of my friends, male of female, and whilst most of them don't join me, they don't mind at all. Trudie does. It makes her uncomfortable. According to your logic, I shouldn't give a damn how she feels about it, and if she doesn't like it, she can stay away, and I'm better off without her. But she's my best friend. She's been there for me through thick and thin. She was the one that told me my wife was cheating on me, when no-one else would. She was there for me when my marriage broke up. She's been there for me with everything, and I love her dearly. I hope that she'll relax about it in the end, but she is worth FAR more than any principle about taking off my clothes. Everyone has a right to their views Mike, and everyone deserves to be treated with value.

When you come around, telling people what they can and can't wear, implying that they're letting down some sort of cause, you are out of line. If you're on some sort of crusade, then damn well do it yourself. Take yourself out and walk the streets naked, like Vincent Bethel, but don't consider yourself so important that you can go telling everybody else what's ok.

"I cant beleive that 50% of the damned country cant even keep a stable marriage together, thats just bs."

What's this. Are you so arrogant as to say that the national divorce statistics of your country are a lie? You have no life experience Mike. You're a frightened little boy. You've never been married, and you think it's easy. You're scared of gays, probably because you don't know any. You want everything your way, and everyone to believe what you believe. It's never going to happen, and because you're as much of a hater as you are, it's even LESS likely to happen for you. Grow up.

 

I think we've managed to get peoples interest into what you think piqued Mike. Now lets see you defend yourself, with some facts and logic rather than rhetoric and hate please. Let's start here:

"Also their lifestyle is totally immoral"

Why? Who says? Are you a Christian? If you are, then we can have a real fun discussion as to whether public nudity is ok for you (and I guarantee you I'll win). If you're not, then how is it immoral? Where is your moral foundation, that you can make that kind of statement? Are you basing it on the quorom of public opinion and behaviour? If you are, you're sunk again, cos that means you can't be a nudist either.

Come on, let's have it. I'm tired of seeing you attack people, and I'm attacking you. Defend yourself, lightweight.

 

Well thats nice to know, but I dont consider myself a hypocrite. I cant help it that I have strong beleifs and sometimes feel like ive got high standards of people. I just think people and society in general could be alot better than it is now and I just think alot of people are just not living up to their full potential and are taking for granted everything that they have. I just feel this attitude people have where they want everything for themselves and they dont want any sort of government or law in their lives is going to lead to anarchy and destroy this country. Im like anybody else I want freedoms but I think theres a limit to what people can chose to do to maintain a certain level of saftey for everyone.

Maybe its because my way of life is better than theirs and i think they know this but they dont want to accept it because they want to keep living this lifestyle of theirs dispite how bad it might be and then when they finally do want to change their ways, its too late. These people are no better than me, they want to do whatever it is they want to do and they dont want anyone to have any say in what they do or how they live their lives no matter how immoral or dangerous it might be. I just really beleive some of these people should think before they act and not do something stupid that theyre gonna regret later.

Actually sex in public is bad because it is supposed to be something private and intimate between two people that they share in their own place and on their own time and isnt supposed to be something you do outside and have the whole world seeing it. Besides if sex was legal in public then if someone was getting raped people would just think its two people having sex, whereas if its illegal then if they see people doing it they get arrested and it would be found out that the person was raping the other person. Thats just one example but I think its a good one. Anyways I just feel there are some very few things that should just not be done in public.

Why? They have no reason to not want to see nude people. Maybe I dont want to see some slutty girl in a shirt that shows her midriff and with some short skimpy skirt on, since I dont want to see that, do you think my view should be respected and the girl be forced to wear something else just because I dont like the sight of her? Besides who would decide what is ok to wear in public and what isnt and how would they decide who is ok with it and who isnt? I just say let people wear what they wanna wear and just live and let live, youre not gonna please everyone and you shouldnt try, just be yourself and do what youre gonna do and go on with your life, so long as it doesnt hurt anyone or cause a real big scene or anything. I dont wanna play stupid mind games with people and be worrying about weither the guy next to me approves of my apperance or not.

We should encourage people to accept nudity but at the same time treat it just like its normal, like just another fashion or another way of expressing yourself just like any other controversial look or fashion that people wear. People didnt used to like bare legs or bikinis or anything like that and most of the time these things were legalized because people actually got out there and wore them and didnt care what people thought about them, same thing with nudity, if enough people did that enough times then the public would come around to the idea and accept it. We deserve to have our nudity accepted the same as we deserve to have our bare legs and bare chests and bikinis and everything else accepted.

We need to get people to come around to the idea that our nudity is NOT offensive because it ISNT offensive and there is no good reason why people should think it is. Most people only beleive nudity is offensive because of the way they were brought up and through the brainwashing the media gives them, deep down if they had to really sit and think about it theyd find nudity to not be so bad, problem is most people dont sit down and think about it long enough to realize this and this is what we need to do. if they have continued exposure of it and can see that there is no harm in nudity then they will come around to this idea and will eventually accept it.

We cant respect a law or a beleif though that we know deep down is wrong and immoral. If we did that then women would still be wearing dresses and blacks would still be oppressed and we would still have slavery and so on, people opposed those things and openly showed their disrespect for those beleifs so why cant nudists do the same? These beleifs dont deserve respect, you dont just give people respect they need to earn it and they dont earn it by having these beleifs that you know are immoral and wrong.

Im just not going to sit idly by and let some textile schmuck tell me that the sight of MY body is disgusting and force me to wear clothes just because he/she finds it offensive and against their beleifs, because if they can do that then I should rightfully be able to turn around and tell people what they can and cannot wear based on the fact that I find it disgusting and I shouldnt have to see it, if I cant do that then they have no right to do that to me. If we keep kissing up to these people then they will keep imposing their religious and government ideals on us and we will never have the freedom that we want and deserve.

Thats how they should respond because there is nothing wrong with nudity.

I just feel that you should do what you feel is right and if she allows something so simple to come between you and your friendship then she isnt worth having as a friend because a true friend would not throw away their friendship with you just because they cannot stand the sight of you naked. Youd think your own friend could handle seeing you naked more than anyone else because theyre your friend and women see women naked all the time, im sure if you were in a locker room with her she wouldnt mind, so it shouldnt make any difference if you are naked before her outside. If we follow your logic then if its ok for her to be offended by yoru nudity and you should have to cover up then if you find something she wears to be not to your likeing then she should have to change or alter her apperance or not be your friend, im sure you wouldnt want that, so she shouldnt be doing that to you. She just needs to learn to live and let live and not be bothered by nudity in the first place or just not let it be a problem for her while she is with you. She should know up front that if she is going to be in your presence that you are going to be naked and if she choses to be around you anyways then she has to learn to deal with you as you are. I know it sounds harsh but I think just people need to learn to live with and love and respect people as they are and not ask them to change themselves.

Then then nudity shouldnt be a problem with her if she is such a good friend to you. For the sake of your friendship she should accept you as you are, youre a nudist so youre gonna be naked sometimes and its much easier to just be naked and have her accept you than have to go to some great lengths to change yourself just to please some unnatural tendancy she has.

If she can be there for you through all of that then she could handle your nudity as well, im sure those other situations are much more stressful than seeing you in the nude as nature or god intended for you to be. How could such a natural and healthy image disgust someone so much? I just dont get that, if people feel that way, its an insult to nature and god *whatever you beleive in*.

Of of course but that feeling should go both ways and she should accept your nudity, especially if you accept things about her that you might not necessarily like or agree with. Im sure if you were nude around her enough and had an understanding with her that she would learn to accept it as normal and it would soon no longer be a problem. Sometimes to overcome things you dont like or fear you just need to face them and deal with them and soon they no longer are a problem.

Yes but that goes both ways. Like I said she should respect your nudity and you should respect whatever it is she does if anything that you might find disgusting or offensive. It must not bother her that much if she still remains your friend dispite the fact that you enjoy being nude, so i really dont see how hard it could be for her to just suck it in a little bit and just live with you as you are, I mean if she values you that much as a friend, it shouldnt be that much to ask.

I just dont think they should wear clothes and kiss up to people and then complain about having to wear those clothes and having all these rules imposed on them and wanting their rights. If people wanna go nude so much then they need to get out there and do it and fight for their right to do what should be their freedom to do. Im not telling people to wear anything, I dont really care what they wear but I just dont think they should do one thing and then whine about the fact that they didnt do the other when they had the choice to do it in the first place.

Yeah and how exactly am I supposed to get us nudists any rights by myself? I think all nudists should work together for a common goal because when people voice an opinion in groups and together it is more widely heard by others and taken more seriously. If just one person wants nude rights they are laughed at and told to get a life, if a whole community or nation wants those rights then their voice is heard and most likely will be taken seriously.

I just think you should if you want to be able to go nude to just stop hiding behind your clothes and get naked and go do what you feel is right, dont let some corrupt government or some stupid burecrat or the media keep you from doing what you feel is right and what you know is.

Yeah, hello, its something the democrats came up with and they lie about things all the time, they lie to get whatever they want, they tried to lie to get that idiot Kerry in office and it didnt work. You dont have half the goddamned country not being able to stay with their significant others that just insane, you cant say half of this country is so bad like that, it just isnt true, maybe 10-20 percent yah but sure as hell not 50%.

And you think youre going to give me a lesson about life? I might as well just be a frightened little boy, sounds alot better than buying into the crap I hear from some people around here, sure many of them sound alright and give some sound judgement but some people here just sound insane and spout a bunch of nonsense and because you have alot of guilable people out there they actually beleive it.

Never said it would be easy and I dont beleive it would be but I still beleive its possible to remain true to the one you love dispite the odds stacked against you, I dont beleive in divorce.

I do know some and have met several of them and their lifestyle is what scares me because they are bad people who wish to corrupt our society, nothing good can come of giving them the right to marry and try to live the same family lives as the rest of us.

And YOU dont???????? I beleive that is exactly what some people here want and so they have no room to say that im out for myself because they do the same thing. Least I have some standards and goals in life, some people here only have their own little personal agendas to meet.

Im no hater, I dont hate anybody, you think everyone who disagrees with you or has an opposing viewpoint is a hater or is intolerant. I beleive im more grown up than some people here.

Well if other people think im like you say I am then they should speak their mind and not just have you telling me what you think is going on in their heads. I dont hate anybody and im not gonna start, I just dislike some of the ways this society is heading and I just dont want to see happen to this country what has happened to many other countries in the world.

Well thats a tough question. If I had to pick any religion it would be that one because I beleive in most of it but yet I do question it alot and find alot of flaws in it but compared to many other religions I find it to be more stable than they are.

Well I dont beleive that God or the Bible said anything about nudity being immoral, that is just how the christian community has skewed the issue over the past few hundred years or so and not all christians hold this view. Whereas god and the bible seem to *and no I dont know the exact passage, but ive heard it from some really trustworthy christians* clearly condemn homosexuality and most christians and in fact most people of this nation even our president find homosexuality to be wrong and while they dont think it should be banned they do think things like gay marriage should be outlawed so that marriage can have its age old definition of union between a man and a woman.

its wrong because many gay people are not involved in commited relationships, they do not stay true to one person and they have multiple relationships with multiple partners and they have sex constantly and that is the main focus of their lifestyle and when they do have sex they do not use any sort of protection most of the time and thus spread all sorts of sexually transmitted dieseases around and since not all gays have sex with just men they spread it to women that can spread that diesease to other hetero guys and it basically endangers society. The gay lifestyle just has no morals and no values and most people who are gay their relationships dont last and if they could get married then divorce rates within gay marriages would go through the roof and we already have enough hetero divorces by people who divorce their soulmates and loved ones for some of the stupidest reasons anyone could ever fathom.

Many people seem to agree with me and the behavior of many gays ive run into seems to support that statement.

I base it on a number of different things and when they all come together they make the homosexual lifestyle out to be extremely troubled and risky and its just not something I think should be a part of society because it does no good for society and would only harm those who want to live an innocent and happy life. I think people's views on homosexuality and nudity are quite different and you cant really compare the two because they are two strikingly different lifestyles and ive seen many people who support one and oppose the other and the other way around so just because they dislike one doesnt mean theyre gonna not like the other.

 

bras just suck, in my opinion

 

Mike, your idea of it 'cutting both ways' with my friend is that she should change, and I should do what I like. Actually, if I really value her, I should be prepared to not make her uncomfortable. I wouldn't lose her friendship by going naked round her, but I'd make her uncomfortable, and I'm not going to do that. It is important, whether you see it or not.

Let me challenge you to something. I hear a lot of this bullshit from you about how you think nudists should behave. I challenge you to do it yourself, before you ask anyone else to. I agree, you can't change the world on your own, but you have no place to ask others to do what you won't do. Mike, you don't even go nude at home with your family, do you?

Secondly, you think the democrats made up that figure for divorce? You're wrong, and ignorant. It came from the US Census Bureau, which is a non partisan body, and does real research. You can deny it all you want, but it's still true, and the earth isn't flat either.

Finally, you've again backed up your judgement of gays being immoral by citing a number of other things that are immoral in your view. You have failed to understand something, and that's that you bloody well need some foundation for some of what you say, if you want to make absolute moral judgements. If you are a christian, then yes, there's a case for saying that homosexuality is sinful based on the bible, and, unlike you, I do know the chapter and verse. However, there's also a case for saying that public nudity is sinful based on the bible. You've told me on both what you 'think' is the case, but you clearly don't have any knowledge to back that up.

The other thing you cite is that "Many people seem to agree with me", and you're right, many do. If you did proper academic research in the USA, it might well show that more than half the population think it's immoral to be homosexual. But guess what Mike? At least as many think that public nudity is immoral. If you want to use 'societal norms' as your basis for what's moral and immoral, then you've got yourself in a hole again as far as nudity.

The truth is, a nudist, as you SAY you are, and a homosexual, have something in common. Both choose to do something that a large and vocal section of society say is wrong. The only way either can justify it is if there is no moral foundation, and if people are free to choose what they feel is right. Most humanists and other people who feel that way agree that if there is no moral foundation, then the test you apply is whether or not your actions hurt other people. Homosexuality in private CERTAINLY doesn't hurt other people, and sex in public doesn't either. Your idea that people will be damaged and twisted sounds a lot like what people say will happen if kids see naked people.

My view is that it's important to respect other peoples comfort. I like to be naked, but I do it in places where it's acceptable, and where it doesn't make the people around me uncomfortable. If someone is uncomfortable with it, I'll try to talk to them about it. I'll also support any move to have more freedom, more places where it's acceptable, but I will NEVER accept that just because I like it, everybody else has to get over it. Society and community are about the good of all, not about me as an individual.

You seemed to suggest that I also want everything my own way. What have I said that made you think that? Everything I've posted here is about respect for others, ahead of yourself.

I think the most interesting thing you said was at the beginning of your post. You said "I just feel this attitude people have where they want everything for themselves and they dont want any sort of government or law in their lives is going to lead to anarchy and destroy this country." It's like your describing yourself, the way you come across on these boards. You come across as someone who wants what he wants for himself, and doesn't want anyone to stop him, no matter what.

The implication that I might be an anarchist is actually funny, given that I'm here defending peoples right not to be offended, and you're the one saying we should just do what we want. My politics are very left leaning, I'd call myself a socialist. I absolutely believe in the rule of law, amongst other things, and that's exactly WHY you should go naked where it's allowed, and not elsewhere. I think, Mike, that you've been fed a lot of lies in your life. The democratic party in your country doesn't want everyone just to do whatever they want, and have no laws - they want to see some laws changed in order to be more logical. In fact, it's a constant cry of the Republicans that Democrats want the Government interfering in your lives TOO MUCH, not less.

You are entitled to think what you want to think Mike, but my advice would be to try to figure out WHY you think what you think, so you can back it up. My pinning you down on why sex in public is wrong made you start trying to do that (although really, rape happens in private, where the girl can't scream out "he's raping me!!", so it wasn't a good defence at all), but you need to think about these things BEFORE you go spouting off, not after. Why do you believe in right wing politics? Why do you believe that Democrats lie (there's plenty of evidence out there that Republicans lie, you know. I reckon it's safer to say that ALL politicians lie.)? Why do you believe that homosexuality is wrong? What makes something right or wrong? Who is the arbiter of acceptable and unnacceptable, moral and immoral? When you've thought your way through those things, some of your views may have changed (you'll see that some of these things are just the way you happen to feel, the way you react, and that there's no logical reason to impose them on others), and certainly you'll be able to engage in a debate about something without making yourself look stupid.

 

And yeah, bra's DO suck!

 

No, actually you should BOTH do what you like. I just dont think something as simple and natural as nudity should be a problem or even be something that could break up a friendship as strong and as important as yours with your friend, thats what im saying. I think alot of people who question what others do dont mind doing that but when people question them about what theyre doing they act like its none of their business so really it seems that person can only dislike what others do and if people dislike what they do then all of a sudden its wrong. Im sure your friend could say she feels uncomfortable with nudity till the cows come home but if you were to question her appearance she would probably act like its none of your business, im just guessing this because ive ran into plenty of people like that.

Of course, but the fact is nudity doesnt and shouldnt make anyone feel uncomfortable, there is no reasonable excuse for nudity to hurt people the way it does. Mostly it hurts people simply because they are misinformed and lack the facts and the truth about it, once they discover this and can accept what theyve been taught as false then nudity is no longer a problem for them. Best thing you can do is to help them accept this so they dont have to live a lie their whole lives and beleive that nudity is some big ugly disgusting thing.


If you lost her friendship over something so trivial then maybe her friendship with you doesnt mean as much to her as she or you think its does. Friends dont part ways over silly things like this, even if they dont like it, they dont abandon one another. Im sure she does plenty of things YOU dont like and im sure you dont ask her to change or tell her that your friendship is over if she doesnt so she shouldnt do the same to you, especially when it involves something so important to your life. Maybe if she would just see you as the person you really are and not just some naked girl walking around then the fact of you being nude would not bother her so much, she shouldnt think of you in different terms just because you lack garments.


Its just suggestions, I realize most people wont do most of the things I suggest but if I dont at least voice on my opinion then i cant blame people if nothing ever happens or nothing ever changes. I just dont want to sit idly by and just let society manipulate people.

Do you honestly do everything you suggest others to do? Maybe some are capable of doing things and you know it but youre not but you still know they are and thats why you support them doing it. Did you ever think of that.


Well its not as much what I "wont" do as what I "cant" do at the moment. I live in a rather crowded and conservative area with two really stuck up parents that dont really allow me to do things like run around nude. Its not merely that they dont like it its that they dont think its something i should do and they tell me not to do it and since i live under their roof i have to respect that, if it was my place or if they just merely didnt "like" my nudity then id just be nude and not worry about it but ive talked to them and theres little chance of them coming around to my way of life so i just need to wait until im out on my own and then it wont matter what i do or say to anyone. Most other people im sure are capable of being nude and supporting their lifestyle, they just lack the willingness to do it. I just wish people would do something to support the nudist lifestyle, even if its something small and minor at least its better than just sitting around and whining about how the world is bad and they dont let us go nude and we cant do a damned thig about it, thats not gonna change anything. Thats all im saying really.

If they would let me and if they showed some willingness to support my lifestyle or at least if i thought they wouldnt punish me for it then id do it sure, but its not just a situation with people merely not likeing my nudity, they think its downright evil and a sin, its not really that bad i can get away with just having shorts on so im almost nude.


I just figure since the democrats always make such far fetched claims about things and lie through their ears that they made up something so stupid like that. Im sure even if that census thing is non-partisan, im sure the democrats still influence them a little bit to produce the results they want, I cant imagine that theyre just good and honest all the time. Even if the democrats had nothing to do with it, its still hard to beleive that half of the country cannot stay commited to their soul mates or wont.


Well from what ive seen, the majority of the country holds this view because they dislike the homosexual lifestyle and they want a ban on gay marriage and I think that speaks for itself.

Well I just try to explain what I beleive to the best of my ability. Im not some big religious, political or law type person so i really dont have the expert knowledge to explain the facts in detail and to say everything in the way alot of other people do I just explain things about how I feel the best way I know how, I dont expect you to just automatically beleive everything I say I just think you should consider it and consider the fact that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong and is a possible threat to society.


Well yes I do beleive in the bible to some extent and try to use that when i explain things but I think its best to use real reasons why homosexuality is wrong for those of us who dont beleive in the bible or christianity which are a big number of people, especially here and I dont want to offend them by sputtering a bunch of religious stuff, besides im better with real stuff than things out of the bible anyways, that stuff at least makes more sense. Im glad you at least know the chapter and the verse and if you do then you must know that homosexuality is sinful and that theres a reason why people shouldnt do it.


Well I think some of that so called knowledge of the bible condemning nudity is just the stuff the media and religious right and alot of government people try to portray, I dont think its really what the bible says. These people make out the bible to say whatever they want it to say and people are simply guilable enough to beleive it. From what ive heard from the bible and other people I beleive that it doesnt have any strong view on nudity one way or another and I can only come to the conclusion that it is not a big issue with god and that he leaves it up to us to decide, because if he specifically allowed or condemned it, he would have specified this in his writing.


Im glad you agree with me with the homosexual thing, but as for the nudity thing, I beleive that is merely the public view of the populations feelings on nudity and I think that is largely twisted by the media and I beleive these people honestly beleive if asked in private that nudity is actually alright and normal but do not wish to voice this in public because of fear of hatred or ridicule or losing their jobs or being written off as a pervert or any other number of things. From what ive heard many people do beleive nudity is alright but just are afraid to admit this in public for fear of rejection.


Theres plenty of other reasons to say that nudity is wholesome but alot of people do go back to the fact that the majority of society *supposedly* condemns nudity as their excuse why it should be banned and so even if you do give them the facts they use people's opinion and feelings as a way to still condemn it, but if they did this with everything then the world would be pretty screwed up because there are alot of things that society generally doesnt like but yet are still legal dispite that.

Yeah but the larger majority of society beleives that homosexuality is wrong and theres more proof of this than there is of nudity because in all actuality, more people accept nudity than homosexuality *secretly though* and there are more facts to say that nudity is good while theres plenty to say that homosexuality is wrong.


Many people seem to feel though if people just do what they feel is right and you dont have any rules or laws then there would be no control over anything and the society would fall apart. I dont know if I really agree with that for everything, some things I do but others I think its just a way for the bigwigs in government and religion to control society and manipulate it towards their views.


Nudity certainly does not hurt people, sure it might make some feel uncomfortable but that feeling is unfounded and theres lots of things people feel uncomfortable about that they really shouldnt and are things people are able to do.


Homosexuality in private can hurt other people if they give their stds to the wrong person or something like that wherethey hurt someone in private, of course this could happen with hetero couples too but i beleive it happens more with homosexuals because they have sex more often and its more inscribed into their lifestyle and that added onto the fact that they tend to have more unorthodox methods of sex and tend to rarely use any sort of protection when they do have sex and thats why it can be so dangerous. As for sex in public, it cant hurt people physically but like if some kid sees it that cant truly understand it then it might be able to hurt them and nudity is much easier to explain to someone than sex is, especially if its out on the street, if its in a bedroom then its easier to explain because thats more typical. I know you could say this for nudity too in some way but i think you understand what im trying to get at. I dont know exactly why people condemn sex in public because the fact that p[eople are usually nude when they do it.


Well I think theres some truth to that about sex, whereas nudity should not harm children because it is more normal and they see it more often and its easier to explain, sex is more complicated and its more intimate too. Theres nothing to prove that nudity twists anyone's mind, whereas i think it can happen when people see sex in public, i think.

You can do that and be nude at the same time. Theres no reason why people cant be comfortable around you when youre nude. Nudity is quite natural and healthy, personally id expect someone to feel uncomfortable around another person in clothing than nude because thats more unnatural and artificial. Id rather be around someone nude than in a bikini bdcause a bikini is far more sexual and odd than nudity.


Yeah but who decides weither it is acceptable or not? You cant always dress to impress everyone or make everyone comfortable and you shouldnt have to, if wearing clothes really isnt you then you shouldnt have to change just to please others, just go nude and tell them thats just how you are and how you express yourself and just ask them to please accept you, its not a matter of forcing anything on anyone, its a matter of acceptance of people for who and what they are. I certainly wouldnt want anyone to have to change their whole outfit or look just because I dont seem to agree with or feel comfortable with whatever they are wearing, its really none of my business and they could always say the same thing about me, so I just live and let live.

Yeah but getting them used to the actual thing helps too because they might come around to you when youre talking but then feel uncomfortable once youre nude so if you do both at the same time then they can see what youre talking about and its easier for them to come around to it. Its like anything you dislike or are afraid of sometimes you just gotta stop talking and just do it, otherwise youll never really get over your fear or distaste for it.


Well honestly if you hold to that view and accept their current opinion as it is then youre always gonna have to wear clothes because these people wont change on your own and youll keep getting looked down on and oppressed by people who think their views and feelings are the right thing and noone else's is. Its not a matter about what you feel is right its a matter about what is right and what people need to come around to, there are facts to back up your opinion so it isnt just how you feel personally, there stuff out there that everyone can agree on. You have a right to be able to exercise your freedom to go nude and you should fight for it and get to exercise that right. Not eveyrone is going to agree with it but that still shouldnt stop you.

I think as far as nudity you should have it your own way because its alot better than the oppressive views of these other people who force us to wear clothes and to feel ashamed of the way our god or nature created us. Thats not a very healthy way to live.

You can respect others but at the same time get the rights and freedoms that you so rightfully deserve. These people need to respect your rights and you need to respect how they feel at the same time. I dont really think you want what you feel is right, maybe i just misinterpreted that before but I dont think that.


Im not describing myself, i dont go to extremes like some of these people do and while I dont like government or religious groups alot, I think that some of what they do and say is good. I just think some people whine constantly about freedoms and rights without thinking anything over and they dont think about the possible consequences of their actions and they try to get the government and religion out of their lives unless they get into a situation where they desperately need them and then its like they beg for their help and these places all they can say is "we told you so". I just think epople need to be smart about what rights they stand up for and make sure that what theyre fighting for is something they really need or want. I think the government and religion place too many controls on our lives but I think there needs to be a certain amount of that to make sure things dont turn to chaos. Thats all im saying. I just think things like nudity should be more widely accepted and its not something people should be so strongly against like they are now.

When it comes to nudity which should be everyone's right to have and freedom to be able to practice then I do feel that noone should stop me because they have no legitimate reason to. Its MY body, its MY life, the government or organized religion dooes not own my body and holds no claim to it and has no right to tell me what I place on it and when. They can say what they put on their bodies and i can say what i put on mine but nobody has a right to tell me what i should wear and when. I dont really care if they dont like it or not because theres no reason they shouldnt like it and thats only a result of some of these organized religious groups manipulating society a long time ago and making us all feel ashamed of ourselves when our bodies are the last thing to be ashamed of.


Well it just seems your views and many others when you suggest things that you should be free to do dont really consider how anyone else feels very much and the fact that youre worrying about this with nudity but have no consideration for it with other things is just ironic because many other things that are suggested here if allowed to do would upset alot of people, not necessarily saying you support any of these things but others do and i just think its funny how they have no reguard for feelings about thos ethings but when it comes to nudity they worry about it. I think people's feelings are so different and diverse than when suggesting things like nudity be legalized its impossible to do it based on how others would feel about it because people have so many conflicting views and its better to use facts than people's opinion because no matter what decision you make it WILL upset someone. Best just to do what is right based on the facts as far as nudity is concerned and not worry how others will feel about it.


I think nudity should be allowed any place youd expect someone to wear a swimsuit or go without a shirt or just someplace casual where it wouldnt ruin the mood or hurt anyone. I just think people should have the 'right" to do it everywhere just so that no matter where they do it no legal action can be taken against them, people should still use common sense as to where and when to do it, im just fighting for their "right" to do it in these places.


Yeah and tax us through the nose to do it.........


Well I think as far as social issues they want less government but as far as like business and other things they want MORE government, thats what im saying. Like they want the government to tax us more and make business more regulated but like thy want things like homosexuality to not have any government control.


I just feel the democrats are more corrupt for all the lies and hatred they have passed onto the republicans. I saw Kerry saying more evil things and telling more lies than Bush has, all I see him do is sputter nonsense and misread facts but he isnt dishonest or outright bad or wanting everything for himself. I might be misinterpreting this but i just see the democrats as being more corrupt, although I think all politicans are to some degree.


I just think as a general rule, republicans seem to be more honest and at least seem to genuinely care about the people, democrats just want power and have more personal agendas. Im sure they both make their fare share of lies.


I just beleive sex and relationships should be between a man and a woman as god or nature intended and I beleive that many *not all* homosexuals do bad things that are a threat to each other if not those around them.

 

sorry about that last post but it was too big to put in all the quotes otherwise i would have

 

Im a guy, but bras suck anyways! hehehe *thought you bra haters would appreciate that!*

 

" Maybe if she would just see you as the person you really are and not just some naked girl walking around then the fact of you being nude would not bother her so much, she shouldnt think of you in different terms just because you lack garments.
"

Mike I'm a GUY. I'm sure if I was female too, she wouldn't care if I was naked. Also, it absolutely wouldn't break up our friendship if I disregarded what she felt and went naked anyway, but it would be sad if I did that. She really doesn't do things that upset me, and I know her well enough to know that if I did say to her that some aspect of how she acted round me made me uncomfortable, she wouldn't do it either. That's what friendship is about, preferring the best for your friend over yourself. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point she said to me "Look, you should go naked anyway, and I'll just deal with it if it makes me uncomfortable - no big deal", but until she says that, I'll respect her view on it.

As far as will other people change their views if they aren't pushed hard? I believe they will. For example, in the case of my friend Sharon, she knew I preferred to go naked at my house, and she said to me "I don't know how I'll react to it. I feel like you should go ahead and just do it, but don't be upset if I freak out a little the first time, or have to look away". So, next time she's over, I strip off to lay in the sun, and she tells me after a little while that she's pleasantly surprised to find it doesn't phase her at all to see me naked. So for her, nudity is a much smaller deal than it would have been. She's a friend of Trudie as well, and it'll get talked about, and she'll say "oh, it's no big deal after all", and maybe that affects Trude to. I really believe though, that if I say to a friend, "are you ok with me going naked?", and they say no, and I do it anyway, then I've shown that person disrespect, and I wouldn't expect that to persuade them that my point of view is valid. Most peoples hearts and minds are won over by gentle persuasion, and mutual respect, not by force.


I'd like to know what your basis is for thinking Democrats lie more. Take the Swift Boat campaign, where people who had previously said on the record that it was all true, changed their stories, and attacked Kerry. Take the whole business of the ballot rigging in Florida. Take the fact that Bush lied about the existence of WMD in Iraq, and the link between Saddam and Bin Laden. What examples can you come up with on that scale of Democrats lying from the recent past?

I want less government intrusion on what people do in private. People should be allowed to do what they want, between consenting adults in private - the state has no place telling anyone what they can or can't do with their bodies, unless it's hurting someone. The only real basis for sayng that homosexuality is unnacceptable is religion, and yours is supposed to be a secular nation.

What we do in public, however, has to reflect the feelings of society as a whole. I'm glad that in my country, I can go naked in my back garden, as long as my neighbours don't mind, and there are beaches where I can go naked. I want there to be more places, more beaches etc, and indeed, I agree with what you say - I'd like it to be acceptable to be naked anywhere you might wear a swimsuit, but I believe that it needs to be the will of the people, for that to be the case. If that wasn't the case, if it could just be because I like it, and it really doesn't hurt anyone, then there would be no way of censuring someone who, for example, wants to masturbate in public. Masturbating is fun, and natural, and healthy, and it doesn't hurt anyone. All of the same things can be said of nudity. With masturbation, you don't even have the excuse of STD's to put against it. And I'll tell you, I DON'T want people to be able to jack off in public. I want my view that it's unnacceptable to count, and I want the fact that most people agree with me to count. That being the case, I have to accept that other peoples views about nudity have to count too. It would be lovely to be able to set my own agenda, for me to choose what was acceptable and what wasn't, and for everyone else to go along with it, but that wouldn't be a democratic society, that would be a dictatorship of me, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as lovely for some other people.

I hear what you say about not really knowing the basis for what you feel, just saying what you feel anyway, and in a way that's fair enough, but it's about the way you say it. Take a discussion here. Somebody says "I hate wearing bra's, I haven't worn them for years", somebody else says "yeah, me too, they made me uncomfortable", somebody else says "I like them, they're comfortable, and I like the way they make me look", somebody else says "I don't wear them any more, because I heard they increase the chance of breast cancer, and anyway, I want to look like a woman looks naturally". All those people are stating their beliefs and feelings, and no-one gets upset.

You turn up, and say something like "they should just generally ban them and make people go without and sooner or later women would just get used to not wearing them ", or "they oughta just ban them and then girls gotta get used to living without them and soon theyll be so used to it it wont be any big deal. Sure you might get a few who still whine about it but people do that anyways.", and that gets up peoples noses, it makes them feel that you're telling them what to do, you sound condemnatory.

When it comes to something like "Maybe its because my way of life is better than theirs and i think they know this but they dont want to accept it", or "Actually sex in public is bad because it is supposed to be something private and intimate between two people that they share in their own place and on their own time and isnt supposed to be something you do outside and have the whole world seeing it.", then you're not just gently sharing your opinion, you're making a huge value judgement on people, and someone has every right to expect you to be able to back it up.

Let me give you an example the other way. If somebody said, "I don't like people going naked, it makes me uncomfortable", then they are just stating how they feel, and fair enough. If someone says "Being naked is wrong and bad, and no-one should be allowed to do it", then they are making a value judgement, and condemning, and they damn well should have something to back up saying that nudity is wrong.

 

Oh im sorry, its just most people i know that are named Sammy are a girl, oops!